Neutrik NA2F-D0B-TX XLR to RCA Adapter Review

[Porter]

I had said on my post that RCA connector is used on aux inputs.

You are now telling me that this device is designed to connect a balanced feed to the mixer aux inputs, which are designed to connect local equipment, and as expected, it hums. Irrespective of the fact that, those aux inputs are almost always non-routable and hence useless for feeding the signal to the audience during the live event.

It is indeed a “pretty weird scenario.” I wonder how often that happens?

I didn't say it was designed to connect anything. What I'm saying is that it's a device that would be useful for testing different signal sources to figure out which ones are possibly involved in a ground loop. The weird homemade computer thingy some performer asked you to connect (and turn up when they start their 3rd song) is as likely to be the source of a ground problem as any other device.

Live sound situations are chaotic in the extreme, and require immediate problem solving without delay. I don't get why that is such a challenging concept here.

 

[KSTR]

The main problem who absolutely needs a converter is when we have an XLR source (like a lot of the new DACs) that needs to connect to an unbalanced amp.

That's what folks are after.

And they need to look elsewhere as the adapter tested here can't cope with 4Vrms peak output from those DAC's.

One needs bigger trannies for that, NTL1 would be the one Neutrik is offering for that purpose. This one has higher Rdc (1.1k) and larger inductance, presenting a less difficult load for the driving amplifier -- which still should have high max current and low output impedance. ~90R from a Topping D10b should be fine, for example.

 

[PeteL]

I had said on my post that RCA connector is used on aux inputs.

You are now telling me that this device is designed to connect a balanced feed to the mixer aux inputs, which are designed to connect local equipment, and as expected, it hums. Irrespective of the fact that, those aux inputs are almost always non-routable and hence useless for feeding the signal to the audience during the live event.

It is indeed a “pretty weird scenario.” I wonder how often that happens?

I think your point is that it's not something you use everyday. That's correct, it's not. It's there if you need it. That's why you don't want to pay hundreds for it. That's also why you want it small and light, else you wouldn't carry it just in case. Yes aux input on cinch are used in multitude of scenarios, the list would be long. Aux inputs are routable on all the boards I know.

 

[sarumbear]

I didn't say it was designed to connect anything. What I'm saying is that it's a device that would be useful for testing different signal sources to figure out which ones are possibly involved in a ground loop. The weird homemade computer thingy some performer asked you to connect (and turn up when they start their 3rd song) is as likely to be the source of a ground problem as any other device.

Other than the weird examples you gave the only other examples you have is a domestic (Hi-Fi) use case then.

Live sound situations are chaotic in the extreme, and require immediate problem solving without delay. I don't get why that is such a challenging concept here.

Indeed they are but this specific device has no use in a live PA environment other than the weird case that explained which is something nobody on their right minds try.

You may disagree but I think I made my point.

 

[Porter]

Other than the weird examples you gave the only other examples you have is a domestic (Hi-Fi) use case then.


Indeed they are but this specific device has no use in a live PA environment other than the weird case that explained which is something nobody on their right minds try.

You may disagree but I think I made my point.

I didn't give a domestic hifi use case. The "weird computer thingy" I was describing was in a live sound context. I've heard of performers showing up with experimental electronic "instruments" built from a Raspberry Pi or Arduino.

Things that "nobody in their right mind would try" come up more often in live sound production than you would think. The idea here isn't that the device would have a specific permanent application, but rather that it might come in handy in a weird situation one day. So if you're putting together a road kit of test isolators, in addition to the more common XLR-XLR combinations, why not throw some in the kit that do other particular I/O combos to or from RCA as well.

 

[sarumbear]

I've heard of performers showing up with experimental electronic "instruments" built from a Raspberry Pi or Arduino.

Which has balanced XLR outputs…

 

[Porter]

Which has balanced XLR outputs…

It doesn't matter. The inclusion of this I/O variant is about being prepared, not about it being matched to a specific particular device. Again, you're making hifi assumptions that a device needs to have an exact intended purpose within your "system". That's not how it works in live sound production.

To make an analogy... I don't know what exact fire in what exact situation I'm going to be putting out with a fire extinguisher when I buy one, but it's smart to have a fire extinguisher anyway. Will it be my stove on fire? My microwave oven? The toaster? I have no idea! But owning a fire extinguisher is still something I should do.

 

[sarumbear]

To make an analogy... I don't know what exact fire in what exact situation I'm going to be putting out with a fire extinguisher when I buy one, but it's smart to have a fire extinguisher anyway. Will it be my stove on fire? My microwave oven? The toaster? I have no idea! But owning a fire extinguisher is still something I should do.

You may well be in for shock then. For instance when an electrical fire is taking place, if you use a water-based foam based extinguishers, which happened to be most common ones, you are in for a shock.

To prepare for every eventuality is for uninformed people. I prefer to know my system and plan for it.

 

[sarumbear]

@Porter @sarumbear
Sorry to interrupt your ping-pong match, but 2 pages, isn't that enough ?
You've both made your point, didn't you ?

You may ignore us if you want. I am enjoying chatting with a professional whose views I value, on a professional matter, and I think he does too.

 

[PeteL]

To prepare for every eventuality is for uninformed people. I prefer to know my system and plan for it.

I think that it's the whole Idea this device exist specifically because you don't know which system you are going to work with... Certainly not for your own personal system!!

 

[sarumbear]

I think that it's the whole Idea this device exist specifically because you don't know which system you are going to work with... Certainly not for your own personal system!!

My use of the word “my” was for the PA system that I happen to use/control at the time, not personal system.

Anyway, let’s not alienate people further and stop here. I enjoyed chatting with a professional. Thank you.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

I think it's other way around.
Most of the nice balanced amps don't have a problem connecting them with an RCA to XRL cable (properly wired),they don't need a converter (ok,some strange may do).
The main problem who absolutely needs a converter is when we have an XLR source (like a lot of the new DACs) that needs to connect to an unbalanced amp.

That's what folks are after.

What's wrong with just using the hot pin, and let cold pin dangle?

 

[Sokel]

What's wrong with just using the hot pin, and let cold pin dangle?

Most of the ways to do it in the output short it.
And while it's no harm (usually) to short an input,shorting an output can boom (and the usual mafufacturers here don't recommend it,AT ALL)
So...

 

[Ken Tajalli]

Most of the ways to do it in the output short it.
And while it's no harm (usually) to short an input,shorting an output can boom (and the usual mafufacturers here don't recommend it,AT ALL)
So...

hence, why I said let it dangle!
Just the ground wire and positive, let the negative just dangle. if you want to be thorough, use 600 ohm resistors.

 

[solderdude]

Which has balanced XLR outputs…

These devices seem to be designed to be used with the RCA on the source side and the XLR on the load side (see PMA measurements).
The goal is to 'solve problems' and those usually occur with RCA out (ground loops).
This device breaks ground loops and balances the signal so should be used near an RCA source and as long as the signal isn't too hot works good enough for that usage.
Just not suited for hifi sound reproduction with 2V output levels.
In the early days RCA out was closer to 400mV b.t.w. which would be a bit too hot but can be padded if need be.
Balanced works fine for small mic signals over long distances as well.

 

[Sokel]

hence, why I said let it dangle!
Just the ground wire and positive, let the negative just dangle. if you want to be thorough, use 600 ohm resistors.

That should be ok on the output side.
But when the input side (to my amps for example) are to be connected like this according to it's spec sheet?



That's why the use of a nice pre amp that can mix and match I/O is key to some rigs.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

These devices seem to be designed to be used with the RCA on the source side and the XLR on the load side (see PMA measurements).
The goal is to 'solve problems' and those usually occur with RCA out (ground loops).
This device breaks ground loops and balances the signal so should be used near an RCA source and as long as the signal isn't too hot works good enough for that usage.
Just not suited for hifi sound reproduction with 2V output levels.
In the early days RCA out was closer to 400mV b.t.w. which would be a bit too hot but can be padded if need be.
Balanced works fine for small mic signals over long distances as well.

775mV actually, till CD players started pumping out 2V.
I agree with the rest, ofcourse.

 

[solderdude]

There was no real standard nor is 2V a real standard today.
Consumer output levels are supposed to be -10dBV (316mV)

 

[Ken Tajalli]

That should be ok on the output side.
But when the input side (to my amps for example) are to be connected like this according to it's spec sheet?

View attachment 293830

That's why the use of a nice pre amp that can mix and match I/O is key to some rigs.

Going back to why I spoke out:

 

[sarumbear]

These devices seem to be designed to be used with the RCA on the source side and the XLR on the load side (see PMA measurements).

Why are there separate male and female XLR types if what you said is the case?

Balanced works fine for small mic signals over long distances as well.

I feel like I’m in a loop. What microphone connector you know of that use RCA connector?