Topping PA5 Review (Amplifier)

[Matias]

Actual music content at 18-19kHz?

I have tested different music genres and seen how high frequency power is in all of them and it is always around -40 dBFS around 20 kHz.

On Class D Amplifiers Measurements

The weaknesses in Class D are well documented. I don't need to fill a thread with them again. Their strengths are well documented and acknowledged. From my perspective, the negatives outweigh the positives by a wide margin. I wish they didn't to be quite honest. That is why some use class D...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Lambda]

What could I gain from this pa5...will notice an real sound improvement deriving from that good measurements?

Nothing, if your happy now keep your amp.

 

[0bs3rv3r]

Please heeelp...is this a really good amp...

I believe it will be.

something surpassing expensive ones

Probably not, but certainly getting closer.

Reports are trickling in about how it sounds in practice and they seem to be positive

 

[fastfreddy666]

Bi-amping really doesn't make the sound any louder. (doubling the power only gives you a small increase in loudness)
If it will sound better is subjectivist territory. They say things like "cleaner, solid bass and more detailed highs" Okay sure. Where's your proof?

Yes speaker manufacturers use them. It's called marketing. There is no published evidence to prove that the practice makes any audible difference.

Audio SCIENCE review. Let's talk about the null hypothesis. Does bi-amping makes speakers sound better? The null hypothesis is "Bi-amping does not make any difference in sound quality"

And now it's your job to come up with a statistical significance test with a confidence interval of let's say 95%. to proof bi-amping works.

Killing you softly with statistics. Science is mean. (LOL)

 

[SDC]

So this little amp is perfect for tweeter and midrange in an active system, combined with a bit more powerful amplifier for the woofer?

No remote or trigger so not perfect for multi-amp active system, but really silent without padding the tweeter. Using Pa5 with 2452, great amp, so silent.

 

[ogonex]

Bi-amping really doesn't make the sound any louder. (doubling the power only gives you a small increase in loudness)
If it will sound better is subjectivist territory. They say things like "cleaner, solid bass and more detailed highs" Okay sure. Where's is your proof?

Yes speaker manufacturers use them. It's called marketing. There is no published evidence to prove that the practice makes any audible difference.

Audio SCIENCE review. Let's talk about the null hypothesis. Does bi-amping makes speakers sound better? The null hypothesis is "Bi-amping does not make any difference in sound quality"

And now it's your job to come up with a statistical significance test with a confidence interval of let's say 95%. to proof bi-amping works.

Killing you softly with statistics. Science is mean. (LOL)

voice of reason? ;-)
the thread drifted towards the audibility of the cables. full of voodoo

 

[bravomail]

The recording is the recording. If you want to play that recording louder, and you've already cranked the volume up to max, the only solution is a more powerful amp.

no. u can run ReplayGain tool in Foobar2000. It will calc and store ReplayGain info into tags of your recording. And during playback your lower sounding recordings will be digitally up-lifted.

 

[ModDIY]

Hi!
This thread about pa5 developed in an huge one..really huge...
I read a lot of it days after days until my head almost pop out...
I really intended to buy this amp after first reading amir measurements and opinions about it but NOW...now after reading pages after pages...I am totally into deep fog...passed thru several moment in witch almost entered my credit card to buy it and then canceling....with every new thread page read, less I understood.

Please heeelp...is this a really good amp...something surpassing expensive ones or just a freak that pass excellent some measuring without almost any importance for what sound it is delivering?

I need some sound quality clues and real sound describing and quality compared.

Now I have smsl da9 and I have no problem with it...no hiss or anything...sufficient power and really high resolution sound, all spectrum clean and no emphasize to any frequencies...very please with it. I was more satisfied if it has some bass and low mids emphasize but it is what it is.

How this topping pa5 will compare to smsl da9...it is worth to upgrade to it? I have wharfedale linton with better components crossover upgrade...transforming them in very clean and hires speakers even a little edgy now with very crisp and clear highs and heightened mids presence making already smsl da9 to sound extremely clean and airy. What could I gain from this pa5...will notice an real sound improvement deriving from that good measurements?

Thanks!!!

Keep your amp.

 

[adamjohari]

Hi!
This thread about pa5 developed in an huge one..really huge...
I read a lot of it days after days until my head almost pop out...
I really intended to buy this amp after first reading amir measurements and opinions about it but NOW...now after reading pages after pages...I am totally into deep fog...passed thru several moment in witch almost entered my credit card to buy it and then canceling....with every new thread page read, less I understood.

Please heeelp...is this a really good amp...something surpassing expensive ones or just a freak that pass excellent some measuring without almost any importance for what sound it is delivering?

I need some sound quality clues and real sound describing and quality compared.

Now I have smsl da9 and I have no problem with it...no hiss or anything...sufficient power and really high resolution sound, all spectrum clean and no emphasize to any frequencies...very please with it. I was more satisfied if it has some bass and low mids emphasize but it is what it is.

How this topping pa5 will compare to smsl da9...it is worth to upgrade to it? I have wharfedale linton with better components crossover upgrade...transforming them in very clean and hires speakers even a little edgy now with very crisp and clear highs and heightened mids presence making already smsl da9 to sound extremely clean and airy. What could I gain from this pa5...will notice an real sound improvement deriving from that good measurements?

Thanks!!!

I have the smsl da9, can't imagine the topping being significantly better than the da9. the da9 is amazing. powering my kef ls50 with ease.

 

[anotherhobby]

Now I have smsl da9 and I have no problem with it...no hiss or anything...sufficient power and really high resolution sound, all spectrum clean and no emphasize to any frequencies...very please with it. I was more satisfied if it has some bass and low mids emphasize but it is what it is.

How this topping pa5 will compare to smsl da9...it is worth to upgrade to it?

I would not "upgrade" unless the PA5 has different features you'd prefer, or if you like the way it looks better, or something like that. I just do not think you will hear any difference between these at normal listening levels, especially if you aren't playing to distortion levels now. This amp will not give you more bass, unless you are actually underpowered and distorting. If you want more bass, put the money into a sub or find speakers that play deeper.

I'm super happy with my new PA5, and I'd highly recommend it to anybody looking for a 2 channel amp of this size, style, price, and power. It is indeed excellent, and has more than enough power to drive my Revel M105's much louder than I would ever listen to (and I like to listen loud). I either upgraded, downgraded, or crossgraded from a NAD 3020 v2 integrated amp, but I didn't need any of the NAD's features other than the amp. Also, for my desk the PA5 is smaller, and I think it looks better. The PA5 also measures better than the NAD and has more power, but they both sound the same to me. I'm much happier with the PA5, but it wasn't any sort of performance move. I think it just comes down to price, features, style, and power requirements when you are measuring and sounding this good.

 

[bravomail]

smsl da9 to sound extremely clean and airy. What could I gain from this pa5...will notice an real sound improvement deriving from that good measurements?

Thanks!!!

Well, DA9 has a remote. That's a big plus. And since u don't have any hiss or hum issues with your speakers - I'd say, u don't need PA5.
But if u have money burning ur hips .... ;D
U can try Aiyima A07, PA5, Sabaj A8 etc...

 

[envydd]

My initial **subjective** impressions of the PA5:

Gear: SMSL M200 + PA5 + LS50 (OG), no sub
Input: Chromecast audio via optical (with a little high treble because I like the midrange accentuated), + amazon ultra HD via USB with the MBP (MIDI setup to upsample everything to 384khz)
Room: 14'x14' (275sqft small room), carpet with a L shaped sectional and curtains facing the speakers on the other end
sound dB measured with iPhone app
Target loudness 65-85dB (my listening levels)
Positioning of speakers: LS50s 1.5' away from wall, 6ft away, I am 6ft from each speaker (equilateral triangle).
Operations: I keep the volume on PA5 at max and use the system via the DAC remote.

Other gear I have listened to (to compare the same album in other rooms of mine or my friends')
Amps: VTV NC500, Purifi, Nuprime, DIY 502MP, Yamaha AS801, Aiyima A07!
Speakers: KEF R3, KEF R900, Wharfdale Linton Heritage, B&W 800d3 (the real deal, subjectively)
DACs: bunch of decent DACs from ESS, AKM that measure well here I think they are not the bottleneck here

Subjective observations:

• very crisp sound, no coloration (no tube!), no hiss, dead silent etc (it feels like a wire with gain)
• very good, tight bass from the LS50s while the trebles are not distorted! Midrange and vocals are clear with the right depth (e.g. Norah Jones)
• not as loud as Purifi, need to operate at 70% DAC volume vs 40 with Purifi/NC502MP
• cleaner than the A07, AS801, NC502MP, NC500 and at the level of the Purifi!
• The sound is not as warm as the AS801 or the A07 (yes I find the A07 behave like a AB amp).
• The 805d3 paired with the AS801, or NC500 or Purify bests everything hence the speakers matter most for my listening

My personal conclusions:

• For smaller rooms PA5 is good enough for me along with a LS50
• For my large living room (450sqft), I have a R3 connected with a SMSL DACs + NC502MP. I will consider the 805d3 as an upgrade due to the amazing midrange (way more expensive though!), paired with a VTV Purifi since I need about 150W in this room with a R3. I want to be at the 60-70% of rated power since I assume with the THD vs power curve, I will operate at the optimal region with 85db SPL in my config.
• Have to integrate a sub and repeat the above subjective tests .....

Done with audio hobby experiments for about a year or two Need to listen more! For now let me thank and congratulate @JohnYang1997 for producing an amp for desktop setups where 50-75W is enough and we can operate at the optimal point of the THD curve. understand the gain is low etc, however for monitor/desktop setups it works in my favor. And kudos to @amirm for creating this resource!

As usual, YMMV ..... Happy holidays.

 

[bsas]

Hi!
This thread about pa5 developed in an huge one..really huge...
I read a lot of it days after days until my head almost pop out...
I really intended to buy this amp after first reading amir measurements and opinions about it but NOW...now after reading pages after pages...I am totally into deep fog...passed thru several moment in witch almost entered my credit card to buy it and then canceling....with every new thread page read, less I understood.

Please heeelp...is this a really good amp...something surpassing expensive ones or just a freak that pass excellent some measuring without almost any importance for what sound it is delivering?

I need some sound quality clues and real sound describing and quality compared.

Now I have smsl da9 and I have no problem with it...no hiss or anything...sufficient power and really high resolution sound, all spectrum clean and no emphasize to any frequencies...very please with it. I was more satisfied if it has some bass and low mids emphasize but it is what it is.

How this topping pa5 will compare to smsl da9...it is worth to upgrade to it? I have wharfedale linton with better components crossover upgrade...transforming them in very clean and hires speakers even a little edgy now with very crisp and clear highs and heightened mids presence making already smsl da9 to sound extremely clean and airy. What could I gain from this pa5...will notice an real sound improvement deriving from that good measurements?

Thanks!!!

Honestly, your gear is excellent and it is not an "upgrade" per say since the majority of the measured "improvements" are below human hearing. Just keep your amp and wait one or two more generation improvements before you get a bigger jump. Definitely the PA5 is a big step towards better amps in a new future, which is super exciting, but, it is the first of many steps to come

 

[envydd]

I would be happy with any of the modern amps (PA5, DA9, A07 etc) for a smaller room as they are enough. For larger rooms we need the higher end amps as physics dictates higher watts at larger listening distances.

 

[Yaiba]

Hi!
This thread about pa5 developed in an huge one..really huge...
I read a lot of it days after days until my head almost pop out...
I really intended to buy this amp after first reading amir measurements and opinions about it but NOW...now after reading pages after pages...I am totally into deep fog...passed thru several moment in witch almost entered my credit card to buy it and then canceling....with every new thread page read, less I understood.

Please heeelp...is this a really good amp...something surpassing expensive ones or just a freak that pass excellent some measuring without almost any importance for what sound it is delivering?

I need some sound quality clues and real sound describing and quality compared.

Now I have smsl da9 and I have no problem with it...no hiss or anything...sufficient power and really high resolution sound, all spectrum clean and no emphasize to any frequencies...very please with it. I was more satisfied if it has some bass and low mids emphasize but it is what it is.

How this topping pa5 will compare to smsl da9...it is worth to upgrade to it? I have wharfedale linton with better components crossover upgrade...transforming them in very clean and hires speakers even a little edgy now with very crisp and clear highs and heightened mids presence making already smsl da9 to sound extremely clean and airy. What could I gain from this pa5...will notice an real sound improvement deriving from that good measurements?

Thanks!!!

I have su-9 + da9 + JBL stage A130 before changed to PA5 (I also have Aiyima A07 and PA3 not s)

I think PA5 better in term of clean sound, no noise or hiss. And I found that da9 in direct mode have missing some instrument sound and I need to eq tone +3db treble to fix it. I don't know if it came from my hearing loss at age 40 or some dip FR/distorted. But I heard that sound from other JBL active monitor speaker such as 305 and from many headphone(HD650,Arya,Sundara).And also PA5, I heard that sound without to eq anything.

Anyway, in my country. DA9 only half of PA5 price and DA9 have more feature such as remote,BT (but I can use it from my dac).

 

[DSJR]

Actual music content at 18-19kHz?

Don't shoot me here, but isn't it about distortions coming down into the audible frequency range? There's often non musical 'stuff' at 20 - 30kHz (I remember it being a side effect of SA-CD when that was an 'interesting' format). I'd also respectfully suggest it may help ascertain the stability and competence of the design, but don't hold me to it Whatever, amps with bad IMD figures (19 and 20kHz) back in the 80's definitely seemed to have a sonic 'character,' liked or not...

 

[antcollinet]

no. u can run ReplayGain tool in Foobar2000. It will calc and store ReplayGain info into tags of your recording. And during playback your lower sounding recordings will be digitally up-lifted.

Well first you have to be using Foobar (or some other player with similar feature) and...

By introducing distortion (dynamic range compression)? Or by just adding digital gain, potentially causing clipping?

And will only work with recordings that are not already compressed and with peaks at 0dBfs


In any case - we are talking about amp capability here - if the gain is already sufficient to bring the output to the full power of the amp (just before clipping) then if you want to increase the volume level *for the same recording* then you need more power.

 

[somebodyelse]

No dynamic range compression, just digital gain or attenuation so that different tracks or albums play at similar perceived volume. Usually it involves scanning the files and adding metadata about track and album levels so that the player can make playback volume adjustments. There are variations in implementation, so clipping may or may not be a potential issue. It won't help if your amp doesn't have enough power, but it should stop you having to reach for the volume control so often.
https://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php/ReplayGain

 

[Pulkass]

I believe it will be.



Probably not, but certainly getting closer.

Reports are trickling in about how it sounds in practice and they seem to be positive

I would like Topping makes power amps . More powerful though. With such excellent figures. I need 3 !!! Or 6 for my multi amped 3 way system. Hi Def.

 

[TheBatsEar]

I would be happy with any of the modern amps (PA5, DA9, A07 etc) for a smaller room as they are enough. For larger rooms we need the higher end amps as physics dictates higher watts at larger listening distances.

Or add more subs. Make sure your main speakers don't have to work below 100hz or so.