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Topping G5 Review (Portable DAC & HP Amp)
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
With microfibre? Glasses cloth?
The ES9068AS is spec'd for 32 bit / 384kHz.
How is it the G5 supports 768? Does it doubleclock the DAC portion of the chip? Is it a hidden feature? If doubleclocked, what effects might this have on sound quality (increased errors, jitter?)
It's not super important (because really - who has 768kHz sampled files?)
but I'm curious...
How is it the G5 supports 768? Does it doubleclock the DAC portion of the chip? Is it a hidden feature? If doubleclocked, what effects might this have on sound quality (increased errors, jitter?)
It's not super important (because really - who has 768kHz sampled files?)
but I'm curious...
Dang, currently unavailable. And Amazon Canada has it non-Prime for $65CAD!!
I'll revisit in a few weeks. Unless that's normal price? I checked their website and prices weren't apparent. Is ~50USD about right for what you linked?
No. $20 USD is normal price.
Are there plexiglass companies in your area?
Tap Plastics might ship to Canada and be much cheaper. But there must be equivalent stores in Canada.
The 32 bit / 768 kHz spec is on the USB side. I believe the Xmos bridge simply downsamples to 384kHz. I’m sure somebody is gonna complain it’s audible!
I'm in a bigger city so there must be. I'll check the yellowpages
So for fun, I hooked up my new G5 to some pretty nice speakers which also happen to be an easy load (they're two ways, relatively consistent higher impedance {no valleys below 6 ohms} non-ported design) and DAMN!
So, so very very clean. And the imaging!!
You can't tell the thing is working near its limits until you pass them!
Miraculous machine.
If you're listening to classic rock for example, most albums you can select high gain and max the volume knob as well as the source (phone, PC etc.) and there's no distortion. Louder stuff you might have to back down a couple dB.
Music recorded with dynamic range as a consideration (pre 1991), average level tends to be normalized to peak around -8 to -12dB. It can be cranked pretty worry free, but new stuff that's normalized to 0dB, you have to back down by ~10dB of course.
Random: I'm not sure the battery's state of charge and no doubt it will affect what I'm about to say - when you're a few dB past clipping, the green power light (which turns red with low battery) turns red at the peaks. Possibly useful if you can't tell if something is clipping, you can turn it up til red flashes, then back down ~3dB
Later on I might find the value of the deepest part of the speakers' impedance trough, play a tone at it, and use my scope to see how many volts G5 supports.
I just finishing playing 50 mins near the volume limit, and the temperature of the device is about 40C. After a few hours at low gain it's about 34.
The high gain setting alone lowers the rated battery lifespan, so I'm not sure how much of this added heat is from the higher gain setting itself, or the higher volume output. Also, the thing's sitting on a couch and thermal energy isn't escaping the bottom.
My take is the thing is quite efficient, even at high volume outputs. The entire case is metal (save for the acrylic window and {p}leather non-skid bottom) and is all the same temperature
So, so very very clean. And the imaging!!
You can't tell the thing is working near its limits until you pass them!
Miraculous machine.
If you're listening to classic rock for example, most albums you can select high gain and max the volume knob as well as the source (phone, PC etc.) and there's no distortion. Louder stuff you might have to back down a couple dB.
Music recorded with dynamic range as a consideration (pre 1991), average level tends to be normalized to peak around -8 to -12dB. It can be cranked pretty worry free, but new stuff that's normalized to 0dB, you have to back down by ~10dB of course.
Random: I'm not sure the battery's state of charge and no doubt it will affect what I'm about to say - when you're a few dB past clipping, the green power light (which turns red with low battery) turns red at the peaks. Possibly useful if you can't tell if something is clipping, you can turn it up til red flashes, then back down ~3dB
Later on I might find the value of the deepest part of the speakers' impedance trough, play a tone at it, and use my scope to see how many volts G5 supports.
I just finishing playing 50 mins near the volume limit, and the temperature of the device is about 40C. After a few hours at low gain it's about 34.
The high gain setting alone lowers the rated battery lifespan, so I'm not sure how much of this added heat is from the higher gain setting itself, or the higher volume output. Also, the thing's sitting on a couch and thermal energy isn't escaping the bottom.
My take is the thing is quite efficient, even at high volume outputs. The entire case is metal (save for the acrylic window and {p}leather non-skid bottom) and is all the same temperature
Anyone wondering which gain mode the G5 is most battery friendly running, you're in for a surprise:
Medium!
That's right:
I said:
Medium!
The difference isn't massive, it's 0.1w, or just shy of 30 minutes.
Over the span of 12 hours (given battery life for L/M gain), that's 1.2 watt hours.
When you consider the battry is 4000mAh, and I believe 7.4v nominal, making its capacity about 30 watt hours, it works out to 28.8, 28m 48s, of runtime - not nothing!
How did I come to this conclusion? Using my Kill-a-watt with the battery almost full.
Battery charge alone was 1.6w
Powered on with low gain: 3.0
Medium: 2.9
High: 3.6
A little subtraction gives us
1.4w (L)
1.3w (M)
2.0w (H)
This is during silence. Most of the time, AB amplifiers are 50-70% efficient, and most headphones play too loud with just 50mWRMS, so switching the gain to M and listening to music, is like switching it to L and listening to silence
Enjoy the music!
Medium gain for all!
(Except 300/600 ohmers and sensitive IEMers)
Medium!
That's right:
I said:
Medium!
The difference isn't massive, it's 0.1w, or just shy of 30 minutes.
Over the span of 12 hours (given battery life for L/M gain), that's 1.2 watt hours.
When you consider the battry is 4000mAh, and I believe 7.4v nominal, making its capacity about 30 watt hours, it works out to 28.8, 28m 48s, of runtime - not nothing!
How did I come to this conclusion? Using my Kill-a-watt with the battery almost full.
Battery charge alone was 1.6w
Powered on with low gain: 3.0
Medium: 2.9
High: 3.6
A little subtraction gives us
1.4w (L)
1.3w (M)
2.0w (H)
This is during silence. Most of the time, AB amplifiers are 50-70% efficient, and most headphones play too loud with just 50mWRMS, so switching the gain to M and listening to music, is like switching it to L and listening to silence
Enjoy the music!
Medium gain for all!
(Except 300/600 ohmers and sensitive IEMers)
I thought it might be the 1612
The 1612 driving buf634a?
They appear to be rated for 250mA... is that right?
In the review, 12 ohms starts clipping just below 3v, 20 ohms at about 4.7
These equate to 250mA +-10%
Is it reasonable to assume that, for protection purposes, the G5 provides its buf634as with a maximum supply current of a bit more than 250mA? Or would these devices behave this way with unlimited current available on their supplies?
The reason I'm asking is I'd like to drive some 8 ohm, very non-reactive (sealed, not ported) near field monitors semi regularly, and would like to not be wondering always if I might do damage.
(I've already driven them and the sound is phenominal. I'd hate to have to stop!)
Also, short circuit output to ground is given 375mA, max 550mA. Does that mean they'll all do at least 375mA, but some won't get damaged til up to 550, or do they all do 550 upper limit, 375 no problem. I've never seen two values given! Then again I don't look at hundreds of these
all topping hp amp products have current protection circuit.
You know so much about Topping!
I had a feeling from the voltage vs impedance chart, but before beginning long term usage, it's good to know for sure.
Do you know how they pulled off the LA90?
Just a third stage to their top end headphone amp design (+ more V and A)?
I'm seriously considering buying one now for how the first watt of my G5 sounds driving my ATC SCM20 Pro PSL Mk 2s (which are not similar in parts used or sound produced by the similarly named and 25 year old (potentially malfunctioning) SCM20s reviewed here a couple years ago)
> Just a third stage to their top end headphone amp design (+ more V and A)?
LA90 is just the same TMC topology with LM3886 as buffers.
> I'm seriously considering buying one now for how the first watt of my G5 sounds driving my ATC SCM20 Pro PSL Mk 2s (which are not similar in parts used or sound produced by the similarly named and 25 year old (potentially malfunctioning) SCM20s reviewed here a couple years ago)
Topping's circuit is not new. JDS used it years before Topping. Topping learned/copied from JDS' design and made various and most times identical products in the past few years. (see this post and this post).
ATC SCM20 Pro PSL Mk 2s are active and does not need external power for driving.
LA90 is just the same TMC topology with LM3886 as buffers.
> I'm seriously considering buying one now for how the first watt of my G5 sounds driving my ATC SCM20 Pro PSL Mk 2s (which are not similar in parts used or sound produced by the similarly named and 25 year old (potentially malfunctioning) SCM20s reviewed here a couple years ago)
Topping's circuit is not new. JDS used it years before Topping. Topping learned/copied from JDS' design and made various and most times identical products in the past few years. (see this post and this post).
ATC SCM20 Pro PSL Mk 2s are active and does not need external power for driving.
Seeing as I bought them and have used them pretty regularly for four years, I think I'd know they're passive!
(there's active and passive versions lol
I bought them specifically so that I could do a custom active crossover eventually. Or make them into a 3 or 4 way using active crossover. I want to be smart with $ - it'd be so much more cost effective than buying active SCM 100/150 and would definitely sound better! I'm not cheap, but objectively $4000 worth of drivers in a $1000 (if you're lucky) box, should not cost $20k!
About the 20s: I've really been enjoying the passive 3rd order butterworth at 2.1kHz in the mean time though (my favourite type, how lucky!) so I haven't started. I cross them to two subs that are -3dB @ 24Hz right now
Would you say the LA90 the best implementation?
Meaning, is it approximately as reliable as the best, and very cost effective (like a lot of Topping's products)?
Should I feel bad for buying the LA90 (did they steal the design, or is the implementation common knowledge now)
I'm not persuading you not to buy Topping products but Topping is not known for cost effective (IMHO LA90 is highly overpriced for its power output) and reliable (just look how many people broke their various products... such as the recent PA5 ) at all.
For me. all recent Topping products (including the LA90) has the circuit board sealed, which makes users impossible to fix by themselves if components fails, and components do have much higher failure rate as the sealed circuit boards have heat dissipation issues. I stopped buying topping products when they decided to seal the circuit board / sand off various chips on the board. IMHO the right to fix is important, especially when they are 1) expensive 2)known to have high failure rate, and 3) insufficient customer support / warranty.
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I'm open to buying from most companies. I get that the LA90 isn't the most powerful amplifier - 66 watts into 8 ohms is its rating I believe, and 120 into 4.
I'll be using it to drive my pair of ATC SCM20 Pro PSL Mk 2 near field monitors that I'll typically be sitting 4ish feet away from. The speakers aren't the most efficient (85dB/w@1m), but they're sealed so have a shallow roll off which lets them extend to below 40Hz nicely.
I find that when you've got a very clean, very wide bandwidth sound, that volume doesn't need to be turned very high. The level the music is actually playing at actually starts to take a back seat - almost like you can't tell how loud it is, you can just hear everything.
I've been using my G5 to directly drive these speakers (made a little cable to turn 1/8" to speaker wire). The clarity - it's so, so, so, so clear. Clean. Perfect sounding. To be fair, I haven't driven the SCM20 Pro PSL Mk 2s indirectly (G5 -> amp -> speakers) yet, so a lot of this clarity might come shining through (if it does I might not need to buy anything really).
Kinda got sidetracked there.
So you say that Topping makes their stuff hard to fix and sometimes hides which components they're using. It's a little shifty if they scratch off the model # while claiming the part is a certain number. If they don't want anyone to know what it is, I can kind of understand why they might do such a thing.
Do you know which way it is? (hiding all together, or making a claim and scratching to make verification of said claim impossible)
I really hate when people make things hard to fix... personally I think it should be illegal to intentionally make something difficult or impossible to fix on purpose so that customers have to buy new things. So wasteful (of everything - time, money, resources, environment, patience).
What would you recommend that's around $1000 CDN that would perform similarly?
I really like my G5 and I've read that Topping's stuff seems to be pretty reliable. I'm really hoping the LA90 is the amplifier version of the G5 - extremely excellent and costing only 20% of what, historically, similarly performing gear would cost. I mean really... -120dB THD+n
ho-ly frick
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