Technics SL 1210GR2 Turntable

[Thomas_A]

(maybe the gentleman of the video reading us and can enlighten us a little?)

I am not sure he is reading, and if he did, not likely that he will respond.

 

[Thomas_A]

The problem is that this platter was designed a long time ago. There was no Internet, smartphones, etc. back then. Nobody recorded Technics platters spinning crookedly, even though they were spinning just as unevenly, and sometimes much more, and didn't post the videos on the Internet.
There was also a greater tolerance for less precise workmanship, because the technical level was less advanced
They came up with such a platter design over 40 years ago, the platter became iconic, well-known, recognizable. There is no 1200 model without this platter shape, it is one of the most important recognizable features.

And there is a problem, because it turns out that they can't, or it is unprofitable for them, to make the platter and bearing so that they spin evenly.
They don't care, it's been 7 years since the debut of the 1200GR, and they haven't improved it at all.

Just curious, have you measured the platter ups and down at the outer rim? I've tried it on my Linn platter and it might be in the range of 0.2-0.3 mm.

 

[Quando]

Just curious, have you measured the platter ups and down at the outer rim? I've tried it on my Linn platter and it might be in the range of 0.2-0.3 mm.

I have two copies of this turntable.

The second one does not have such good WOW parameters. I made several measurements, with the same smartphone, and I did not manage to get such a good result of the WOW parameter as in the case of the first copy.

I deliberately bought 2 copies of this turntable, to choose the one with the better WOW parameter.

In both copies, the platter spins the same, visually unevenly
This is how I measured the unevenness with a dial gauge, or rather I tried to measure it, because it is difficult, because the platter is not mounted rigidly on the axis. So I think that such a measurement is not reliable. The result was about 0.3 mm

It must be said clearly, the average user, not a Nerd from the forum, will probably never notice this visual defect. I had the GR version before and for almost 4 years I did not notice this defect. I mean, I saw that it did not spin perfectly evenly, but it did not bother me too much.
It was only when I started to look at it more closely, comparing it with other turntables, that I saw that the platter was spinning very crookedly, and it was spinning even more crookedly than the one in the GR2 model.

I called the local Technics service, asking if this was correct. I got the answer that it was correct, the inconsistency is within Technics' tolerance.

I asked if if I buy a new platter, along with a new motor, Technics will guarantee that the platter will spin evenly.

The answer was that we are not able to guarantee how the platters will spin after buying a new platter and a new motor. I sold the turntable.

You have a choice, either do not buy a Technics turntable, or you have to accept that the platter will spin crookedly.

I will use this turntable.

Proof that the platter can spin more evenly in a turntable:

 

[Chrispy]

It’s a reality of the process - the platter is cast, and then machined to true it up, so the placement of the strobe dots is from the mold and thus they’ll never be perfect. As long as the interface and running surfaces are true, it has no impact on performance.

Just what models are we talking about? I took it to mean all 1200 models....and isn't an issue with my mk2.

 

[JP]

Just what models are we talking about? I took it to mean all 1200 models....and isn't an issue with my mk2.

Any with a cast platter of that style.

 

[Chrispy]

Any with a cast platter of that style.

I just looked at mine, don't see such.

 

[JP]

I just looked at mine, don't see such.

That doesn’t mean none do, just as some doesn’t mean all. It’s variable.

 

[Chrispy]

That doesn’t mean none do, just as some doesn’t mean all. It’s variable.

It was sounding more like "all" in this thread. If widespread on the re-release of the 1200s, that's a shame. I never heard of this issue before this thread in any case. I've had mine since '85 and belong to a 1200/1210 group on FB. Might post it there to see if it gets much traction....

 

[Platypus20]

I don’t see any wobble in my 1987 mk2

 

[Quando]

I don’t see any wobble in my 1987 mk2

Record a video of the platter spinning in your turntable.
In this shot, from the side, as I recorded.
It would be nice to see the platter in a Technics turntable spinning evenly.

 

[morillon]

I have two copies of this turntable.

The second one does not have such good WOW parameters. I made several measurements, with the same smartphone, and I did not manage to get such a good result of the WOW parameter as in the case of the first copy.

I deliberately bought 2 copies of this turntable, to choose the one with the better WOW parameter.

In both copies, the platter spins the same, visually unevenly

in what proportions are these differences? have you exchanged the platters? level ? lubrification , tighter tolerances on axis/well etc. etc etc. ?
it is interesting to investigate seriously..
we will learn more from the other than from the "optimum" one
;-)

 

[mike70]

I only want to know what turntable is really better at the same price tag.

People lose the point of view, quickly. Every feature Technics set in 1200s was copied years later by other brands after their bad marketing doesn't worked. Quartz controlled speed, collar in the tonearm base to update the height, adjustable feet's, etc.

The more criticized turntable (and the most successful).

So, many comments i see here ... let me speechless.

 

[Timmy]

OK – the platter discussion inspired me to do a quick&dirty video with my 1978 or so Sony PS-X60:

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[Quando]

Both copies, new, were measured after taking them out of the box.

In both copies, the platters visually rotate more or less unevenly. For me, this effect is acceptable, although I would prefer it not to be there. My previous 1200GR turntable, rotated visually much more unevenly.

It is worth noting that although the platter visually rotates unevenly, the measurement indicates that the turntable has an excellent WOW parameter.

I measured the wow parameter with a smartphone located centrally above the motor axis, the same in both copies.
The second copy has a worse wow parameter. I made a dozen or so measurements, placing the platter on the motor axis several times, and none of the measurement results were as good as in the case of the first copy.

It could perhaps be improved by adjusting the electronics. There is a service connector in the turntable, but there is no service software available.

It is worth noting that only the 1200G model undergoes the "Precision Balance Adjustment" procedure.

Quote:
"Uneven weight distribution of the turntable can cause excessive vibration or noise during rotation, which leads to a decrease in sound quality. For this reason, the turntable balance adjustment is performed at the factory using special high-precision adjustment equipment. All components are checked after the turntable is assembled. Devices that have been adjusted are marked with a "BALANCED" sticker to confirm that this operation has been performed."

Measurement result of the second copy:

 

[morillon]

here, the grafs more than the numbers are interesting ;-)
(and the limits of the means of averaging calculations for fine observations ;-) )
(never observe this type of graf with other? depending the position of tel? the most frequent 0.01% measurement on the other or "passing" case from time to time?)

 

[DSJR]

Hi,
So, which one has the platter that makes the most waves? The Technics from 1:50 or the Continuum Caliburn from 9:16.
For me the machining quality of the platter is identical, I'm not talking about the intrinsic quality of the turntable, everyone knows that the Caliburn is a fantastic high-end. No one will come and say all year long that the Caliburn's platter also oscillates. Many turntables give this impression, of an intoxicating platter, without the information leaking constantly on the net and without it harming their sound quality.

NB: for the Caliburn, don't look at the black disc, but at the chrome platter, it oscillates more than that of the 1200G presented in this video: it's factual

HA! That Continuum thing with rippled record/mat and the pickup stylus bouncing alarmingly on its suspension

I hope Fremer's phono stage has suitable filtering of sub-sonic gunge...

P.S. I've seen some awful Technics strobe-weavings in my time and honestly thought this would be fixed today, as it's unlikely these decks sell in the high volumes they used to. Makes an SL1500C even more attractive (no strobe on the platter)...

 

[DSJR]

The weight of the plate is 2.5 kg
The bearing, although it has the same construction as in the GR model, is made differently.
The problem is that the MK7/GR/GR2 model uses a very old, but still common, technical solution, mounting the plate to the engine axis. In addition, it is made imprecisely.
The G model has a completely different engine, a much better mounting of the plate to the engine (additional screws) and the additional bearing works in oil. A different class.

Just like my early 70s Dual 701's Pabst motor -

 

[Quando]

OK – the platter discussion inspired me to do a quick&dirty video with my 1978 or so Sony PS-X60:

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

It rotates, decently evenly, but the record is very crooked.

I think that the biggest problem in the vinyl world is not the turntables, the biggest problem is the medium itself.
The records are crooked, off-center, the technology of recording sound on this medium is archaic.

What is the wow parameter of such a very old Sony turntable today?

Could you measure the wow parameter with a smartphone placed centrally above the motor axis?

I'm asking out of pure curiosity.

 

[Timmy]

Could you measure the wow parameter with a smartphone placed centrally above the motor axis?

Made a quick attempt to do that the other day and I was fine with the results:

 

[Quando]

Made a quick attempt to do that the other day and I was fine with the results:


View attachment 396859

Yes, this turntable has a pretty decent wow parameter.
By the way, this app seems to be a bit better for such measurements.

Turntable Speed - Apps on Google Play

Vinyl record player Speed(RPM) and Wow measurement

play.google.com