focused on purchasing a new turntable... SNR >70db

[Smislov]

Hello… As I'm currently focused on purchasing a new turntable, I’d like to hear your thoughts and recommendations for my next one. My shortlist includes the following models:

1. Technics SL-1500C
2. Magnat MTT 990
3. Pro-Ject The Classic
4. Pro-Ject RPM 5 Carbon
5. Thorens TD 402 DD

I’d prefer the SNR to be over 70 dB, but what is your opinion—would I actually notice a difference between a turntable with 70 dB and one with 80 dB SNR?
If there’s no real difference, then my next consideration is whether to go with direct drive or belt drive. After that, design and practicality matter.
What do you suggest?
You also have the technical measurements in att.


Thank you.

 

[Purité Audio]

Direct drive would be my recommendation, just less kerfuffle.
Keith

 

[sergeauckland]

As to 70 or 80dB S/N ratio, you won't get anything like that off a record. Even just the phono stage has a S/N ratio of somewhere around 70dB at best, with a very few notable exceptions. S/N numbers for LP playback are also heavily affected by the RIAA equalisation and our hearing's weighting, so can't be easily or directly compared with S/N ratios for electronics.

Direct drive gives the least trouble, lowest maintenance and easiest set-up. Generally, but not totally, DD also gives the best technical performance in terms of speed accuracy and lower W&F.

Unless you're interested in vintage turntables, in which case there are also the idler drives to consider, a modern DD would be my choice every time.

S.

 

[Bob from Florida]

Direct Drive would also be my choice. Perhaps add the Denon dp3000ne to the list. The recent HiFi news testing revealed exceptional numbers. While the Technics motors edge everyone else, the Denon tonearm has better features.

 

[Smislov]

Direct Drive would also be my choice. Perhaps add the Denon dp3000ne to the list. The recent HiFi news testing revealed exceptional numbers. While the Technics motors edge everyone else, the Denon tonearm has better features.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I wouldn’t go over 1300€. Technically, they’re all quite close in this range, and beyond that price you’re mostly paying for design and exotic materials. The sound isn’t twice as good compared to some of the models mentioned above... after all, the entire audio system setup affects the sound — at least that’s how I see it. I’m leaving room for the cartridge upgrade.
P.S. A colleague of mine has the Denon and it’s great

 

[Bland_username42069]

Technics is easily the best deck on that list in my opinion

 

[mhardy6647]

Technics.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Technics from your list.

 

[Smislov]

Would you recommend any other turntable in the price range of €1300–1500? And why would you recommend that specific one?
From all my research and reading so far, this seems to be the ideal price range for buying a turntable. You don’t really get significantly more in terms of sound quality with a more expensive model. What remains important is having a well-set-up listening room, a phono preamp like the ALVA Duo, and a good amplifier — to complete the picture.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Would you recommend any other turntable in the price range of €1300–1500? And why would you recommend that specific one?
From all my research and reading so far, this seems to be the ideal price range for buying a turntable. You don’t really get significantly more in terms of sound quality with a more expensive model. What remains important is having a well-set-up listening room, a phono preamp like the ALVA Duo, and a good amplifier — to complete the picture.

I have 4 turntables and used to work in the turntable design business.
All of mine are old and would be very expensive to make today.
The Technics will probably be fine. I very rarely play LPs any more personally.

Cartridges vary a lot in frequency response compared to other sources so they, the phono stage (for accurate sound a well designed high pass filter is vital) and speakers location will probably make bigger differences than the turntable itself as long as you mount it properly.

 

[Balle Clorin]

If you look at Thorens 124 DD measurements in HifiNews, you will quickly strike any Thorens DD off the list, 402DD does not impress either. What remains is the Technics, Just make sure you get one with a perfect even and non-wobbly platter.

A good and steep low end filter on the RIAA is important, and low input capacitance 50pf is the target. As high as 200pF should be avoided

 

[Balle Clorin]

I have 4 turntables and used to work in the turntable design business.

Please tell us more..

 

[DVDdoug]

I've only heard noise from a turntable once and it was "rumble" from a cheap plastic "record player". And I've never heard wow or flutter from anything that wasn't broken.

I never had a phono preamp that didn't have audible hiss when turned-up with headphones. They may exist but I never had one. Of course once the stylus is in the groove record noise dominates.

I also like direct drive. I've got a 40-year old Technics direct drive (not the expensive one) and it still works perfectly! No belts or drive wheels to wear out! It wasn't in continuous use for 40 years... For the last few decades it's only been used to occasionally digitize a record that's not available digitally.

...If I was in the market for a turntable I'd probably get the Audio Technica AT-120USB. It's direct drive and it comes ready-to-play with a cartridge and built-in preamp, and it's got USB for digitizing. But I don't think it has auto-lift at the end of the record, which my Technics does have.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Please tell us more..

I have posted quite a bit in the 9 years since I joined, invited by Amir because of my turntable and LP experience!

I have a Goldmund Reference with T3f arm and Ortofon A90 cartridge, EMT 948 with Stanton and Decca Gold cartridges, a B&O 8002 and a Roksan Xerxes with Rega arm and Ortofon Jubilee.

I don't buy LPs any more and only play one if the next bit of music I want to listen to is on LP.

 

[J.M. Noble]

I own a SL-1500C. It's great. I swapped out the included 2M Red stylus for a 2M Blue and I don't even care if it gets better from here. The $100 SL-1600 I recently found on Craigslist is great too.

No way would I own another belt drive deck.

 

[ceedee]

I didn't spend as much as you are suggesting, but I'm quite happy with my Fluance RT-85 that I purchased back in 2020 for casual listening. It comes with the 2M Blue cartridge. It doesn't lift the stylus at the end of the record but it does shut off the motor.

 

[JeffS7444]

Unless the turntable incorporates a phono preamp, any added noise would come from how the internal wiring is shielded and routed. And from the environment: Solid-plinth designs tend to be prone to picking up noise from the environment, particularly at subsonic frequencies. Alas, the combination of direct drive turntable with floating suspension design is rare. Fortunately, while subsonics can be readily measured, they're generally not very audible, and can be reduced by pairing with a phono preamplifier with proper high-pass filtering.

Regarding belts: I recently was surprised to discover that many can be sourced via AliExpress for ~1.50 USD (this was before USA imposed tariffs). Had I known this, perhaps I'd still have my Linn LP12, and would simply replace belts more often.

 

[J.M. Noble]

Unless the turntable incorporates a phono preamp, any added noise would come from how the internal wiring is shielded and routed. And from the environment: Solid-plinth designs tend to be prone to picking up noise from the environment, particularly at subsonic frequencies. Alas, the combination of direct drive turntable with floating suspension design is rare. Fortunately, while subsonics can be readily measured, they're generally not very audible, and can be reduced by pairing with a phono preamplifier with proper high-pass filtering.

Thanks for the inspiration: I should test my solid plinth SL-1500C against my suspended SL-1600 and see how they compare.

Regarding belts: I recently was surprised to discover that many can be sourced via AliExpress for ~1.50 USD (this was before USA imposed tariffs). Had I known this, perhaps I'd still have my Linn LP12, and would simply replace belts more often.

The belts need to be made rather precisely to be suitable for hi-fi use.

 

[JeffS7444]

Thanks for the inspiration: I should test my solid plinth SL-1500C against my suspended SL-1600 and see how they compare.

The belts need to be made rather precisely to be suitable for hi-fi use.

When gauging how well isolated from the environment a turntable is, a real time analyzer can be useful. I use the one built into my Behringer DEQ2496. Fun stuff: I also found RTA helpful when adjusting high pass filtering on my Waxwing phono pre.

My sample size of PRC-made turntable belts is limited to just one so far, but if I felt it seemed substandard, I wouldn't have suggested it as a possibility.

 

[J.M. Noble]

When gauging how well isolated from the environment a turntable is, a real time analyzer can be useful. I use the one built into my Behringer DEQ2496. Fun stuff: I also found RTA helpful when adjusting high pass filtering on my Waxwing phono pre.

I use finer-grained software tools and a Sound Devices interface.

My sample size of PRC-made turntable belts is limited to just one so far, but if I felt it seemed substandard, I wouldn't have suggested it as a possibility.

PRC-made is not the issue: any level of quality can be made in China. But a good belt is not trivial to make correctly, and even in China it's likely to cost more than a couple of bucks. As a musician, I'm sensitive to pitch and even the $$$ Rega belts weren't good enough to eliminate audible speed issues for me.

YMMV, of course.