Speaker stands - is there objectivist evidence?

[Yorkshire Mouth]

As per the title.

I suspect there’s going to be a fair bit of evidence on stand v no stand, but what about cheap v expensive.

I’m currently looking at monitor speakers on a desktop, and wondered what the evidence was if a difference between something like this:

JBER 2 Pack Acoustic Isolation Pads, Studio Monitor Speaker Isolation Foam Pads, High Density Acoustic Foam Suitable for 5" Inch Speakers for Sound Improvement Prevent Vibrations https://amzn.eu/d/43iY4ax

And something like this:

IsoAcoustics Iso-Stand Series Speaker Isolation Stands with Height & Tilt Adjustment: Iso-200 (20 x 25.4 cm) Pair https://amzn.eu/d/8GVKgr2

Has anyone measured this sort of thing objectively?

 

[sigbergaudio]

As per the title.

I suspect there’s going to be a fair bit of evidence on stand v no stand, but what about cheap v expensive.

I’m currently looking at monitor speakers on a desktop, and wondered what the evidence was if a difference between something like this:

JBER 2 Pack Acoustic Isolation Pads, Studio Monitor Speaker Isolation Foam Pads, High Density Acoustic Foam Suitable for 5" Inch Speakers for Sound Improvement Prevent Vibrations https://amzn.eu/d/43iY4ax

And something like this:

IsoAcoustics Iso-Stand Series Speaker Isolation Stands with Height & Tilt Adjustment: Iso-200 (20 x 25.4 cm) Pair https://amzn.eu/d/8GVKgr2

Has anyone measured this sort of thing objectively?

Both will be fine, but they appear to give you different alternatives with regards to height, which will lead to an audible difference.

 

[Soniclife]

Height really matters, this shouldn't be a surprise, play with it using a stack of books or similar to work out what you want, then decide. If they are on a desk vibration into the desk can be a problem.

FWIW I like my Iso-Stand, mainly because I can reach through it for crap behind it, and it lowers desk vibration, but probably not more than a bunch of other options.

 

[Jeremiah Sheets]

Quality stands will have enough mass to minimize resonances. They will also have spikes to couple to the foundation.

There is a misconception that spikes somehow “decouple” the speaker, but it’s the opposite. By directly coupling the stand to the foundation with spikes, you share the load and dissipate the energy more efficiently.

Regardless of cost, you want a stand with high mass (heavy), and minimal resonances (the knock test).
A bonus is coupling spikes. Spikes aren’t critical, but they are an efficient way to add “size” and “mass” to your stand because it becomes a larger and more cohesive system.

In any case, get your speakers off your desk and put them on stands.

 

[DLS79]

The foam pads isolate the speaker from what it's setting on. The stands isolate the speaker and raise it to the proper height.

Personally I dislike most stands because they look like a childs erector set. I'd much rather go with something that fits my space better.

 

[DVDdoug]

Of course, position, height, angle and tilt CAN make a difference.

"Isolation" won't do anything unless something on your shelf/desk is vibrating, etc.

Testing Loudspeaker Isolation Products

 

[DLS79]

Of course, position, height, angle and tilt CAN make a difference.

"Isolation" won't do anything unless something on your shelf/desk is vibrating, etc.

Testing Loudspeaker Isolation Products

The test is being performed using a tiny side table with an apron. It would be pretty hard for anything to make that set-up vibrate let alone speakers.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

So, no objectivist evidence then?

 

[Purité Audio]

Isolation product manufacturers occasionally show some laser vibrometer ’testing’ but I haven’t seen anything where a stand actually audibly improves or even changes the FR of the loudspeaker.
Keith

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Isolation product manufacturers occasionally show some laser vibrometer ’testing’ but I haven’t seen anything where a stand actually audibly improves or even changes the FR of the loudspeaker.
Keith

That could be similar to the expensive cables and power supplies Amir has debunked. Just because you can measure a difference somewhere doesn’t mean there’s and end result of better sound quality.

 

[Purité Audio]

Yes the question is always one of audibility, the stand has to be the right height and stout enough that the speaker doesn't fall off.
Keith

 

[Chrispy]

So, no objectivist evidence then?

There's little I've run across....could (or would) Emir even test something like these? Maybe you can buy the ones you indicate and send 'em in.....can they be compared, tho? One has adjustments for height/angle, the other is a piece of foam. LOL spikes on a desktop would be interesting....if your desk is carpeted I suppose.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

By the way, my new set up, which a long, slow process, has begun. And the speakers are now on stands either side of the desk, rather than on the desk itself.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

There's little I've run across....could (or would) Emir even test something like these? Maybe you can buy the ones you indicate and send 'em in.....can they be compared, tho? One has adjustments for height/angle, the other is a piece of foam. LOL spikes on a desktop would be interesting....if your desk is carpeted I suppose.

Joking aside my speakers, through necessity, actually point across the corners of my desk. I posted a thread elsewhere about minimising desk reflections, I suspect what I’m looking for is some sort of ‘desk carpet’.

 

[Soniclife]

Isolation product manufacturers occasionally show some laser vibrometer ’testing’ but I haven’t seen anything where a stand actually audibly improves or even changes the FR of the loudspeaker.
Keith

To me it seems unlikely they would change frequency response, maybe some impact on waterfall or similar, and that's closer to the sort of claims made for them. However, given these products have been around for ages, the lack of evidence starts to look conclusive, a lot like that bit polishing switch where we were promised tests to back up the claims, but year after year they never arrived.

 

[Thomas_A]

As per the title.

I suspect there’s going to be a fair bit of evidence on stand v no stand, but what about cheap v expensive.

I’m currently looking at monitor speakers on a desktop, and wondered what the evidence was if a difference between something like this:

JBER 2 Pack Acoustic Isolation Pads, Studio Monitor Speaker Isolation Foam Pads, High Density Acoustic Foam Suitable for 5" Inch Speakers for Sound Improvement Prevent Vibrations https://amzn.eu/d/43iY4ax

And something like this:

IsoAcoustics Iso-Stand Series Speaker Isolation Stands with Height & Tilt Adjustment: Iso-200 (20 x 25.4 cm) Pair https://amzn.eu/d/8GVKgr2

Has anyone measured this sort of thing objectively?

Springs Under My Speakers: What's Happening?

Regarding the audibility I gave an example with a speaker placed on my hifi equipment rack with hard and soft speaker feet (sonic design). First two sweeps are hard coupling, last two with soft coupling. Perhaps an extreme example, but it shows the principle that applies...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Speaker enclosure vibrations - a few measurements with accelerometer

There are been quite a number of threads dealing with vibrations in speaker cabinets, both in relation to "speaker feet" and vibrations in enclosures themselves. I recently took out my ACH01 accelerometer to do some measurements, both speaker feet and enclosures. There was some initial...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Zapper]

As per the title.

I suspect there’s going to be a fair bit of evidence on stand v no stand, but what about cheap v expensive.

I’m currently looking at monitor speakers on a desktop, and wondered what the evidence was if a difference between something like this:

JBER 2 Pack Acoustic Isolation Pads, Studio Monitor Speaker Isolation Foam Pads, High Density Acoustic Foam Suitable for 5" Inch Speakers for Sound Improvement Prevent Vibrations https://amzn.eu/d/43iY4ax

And something like this:

IsoAcoustics Iso-Stand Series Speaker Isolation Stands with Height & Tilt Adjustment: Iso-200 (20 x 25.4 cm) Pair https://amzn.eu/d/8GVKgr2

Has anyone measured this sort of thing objectively?

Isoacoustics shows some measurements done at the NRC, comparing their isolation stands with spikes and with speakers suspended by bungee cords. There is little difference in the on-axis response, but the laservibrometer shows more cabinet vibration for spikes, less for the Isoacoustics stands, and least for the bungees.

This is no surprise. The audiophile theories of coupling the speaker to the floor with spikes has always been suspect, as rigid coupling is more likely to create audio frequency resonant modes than reduce them. This is especially true when the floor is a suspended wood floor, which has resonant modes of its own.

 

[Zapper]

Quality stands will have enough mass to minimize resonances. They will also have spikes to couple to the foundation.

There is a misconception that spikes somehow “decouple” the speaker, but it’s the opposite. By directly coupling the stand to the foundation with spikes, you share the load and dissipate the energy more efficiently.

Regardless of cost, you want a stand with high mass (heavy), and minimal resonances (the knock test).
A bonus is coupling spikes. Spikes aren’t critical, but they are an efficient way to add “size” and “mass” to your stand because it becomes a larger and more cohesive system.

In any case, get your speakers off your desk and put them on stands.

That's the classic audiophile theory, and I suspect much of it is wrong.

The proper way to dissipate energy is by decoupling and damping. Ask any mechanical engineer working in vibration and noise control. (Or ask a rider of a classic Harley with a rigid mounted engine.) A rigid connection to another body simply propagates vibration, in this case from speaker to stand to floor.

The minimal resonance (knock test) is the only part that clearly makes sense. More mass will push the frequencies lower, but it's not clear a priori that lower frequencies will have lower amplitude or be less audible.

 

[ZolaIII]

@Zapper read a bit about silicone physical properties and fundamental oscillation frequency.

 

[Zapper]

@Zapper read a bit about silicone physical properties and fundamental oscillation frequency.

Those are broad topics. Could you be more specific?