Pioneer VSX-LX505 AVR Review

[Power Pop 23]

FYI,

My sample of the Pioneer Elite VSX-LX505 AVR has been updated to the firmware that became available at the end of October 2024. I have offered to send it to Amir for measuring. Amir replied he has two AVR's to measure in his queue and would consider measuring my '505' after that.

 

[EWL5]

FYI,

My sample of the Pioneer Elite VSX-LX505 AVR has been updated to the firmware that became available at the end of October 2024. I have offered to send it to Amir for measuring. Amir replied he has two AVR's to measure in his queue and would consider measuring my '505' after that.

Thank you for your service!

 

[MbphotoX]

"I'm surprised he wasn't hit by a defamation lawsuit by the makers with all the energy he invests into destroying their reputation." <---- Lawsuit against actual owner feedback? Good luck! I have no interest in destroying any company's reputation (just make a better product)!

"And Amir's is NOT a real review! He didn't even bother to test the damn device with speakers hooked up.. He could've tested the sound since he was so convinced that it didn't really work.." <---- If you don't like Amir's review, what are you doing on Audio Science Review? You clearly don't appreciate the SCIENCE part of this forum but there are plenty of echo chambers out there that may fit your needs!

"It's time to stop this mindless crusade, or get your shit together, procure that AVR, and TEST it yourself! Not on a test bench, but by actually testing it the way it was intended to be used!" <---- There's no point. Expectation bias would just get in the way!

oh, right..
I mistakenly assumed that you knew how scientific research is conducted... (and how to avoid expectation bias/placebo when conducting said research)

I'm here for the science part, but I need to stress how the tests conducted by Amir were not scientific at all. (in that they did not account for the real world usage scenarios of the device)



I would really appreciate if the tests could be repeated in a proper way, without over-driving the input and volume stages to begin with, and with dynamic measurements instead of continuous stress.

I also feel like special care should be taken with the temperature, the onboard-fan, and the various "reports"..
People report speakers sounding "strained"..
That should be reproducible, no?!
Let's use speakers and see if it "happens" at higher volume..
Then measure what actually happens to the AVR when it "happens".. (measure power consumption, or, more ideally, the actual output at the speaker terminals WHILE it happens)

We know that the AVR conducts a relays switch in the Power Supply to conserve power.. (eco mode, power saving mode, whatever) and that this is reversible..
Why not investigate this and check if the "limp" mode does the same but with a "switch" somewhere that prevents it from switching back?

 

[MbphotoX]

FYI,

My sample of the Pioneer Elite VSX-LX505 AVR has been updated to the firmware that became available at the end of October 2024. I have offered to send it to Amir for measuring. Amir replied he has two AVR's to measure in his queue and would consider measuring my '505' after that.

your Revels dip to 3.3Ohm (according to Amir's review) and they are medium sensitivity-wise..
Have you ever experienced them sounding "strained"?

Did you ever need to turn the volume up to 0dB and they simply refused to play louder?


My B&W go down to 2.8 Ohm, but I honestly never need more than -20dB on the volume.. and that's maybe 20 Watts of power...

 

[Power Pop 23]

your Revels dip to 3.3Ohm (according to Amir's review) and they are medium sensitivity-wise..
Have you ever experienced them sounding "strained"?

Yes, during the first week of ownership when I sampled the internal amplification - I wonder if 'expectation bias' was at play...

I had external amplification and used the '505' as a preamplifier until shortly after applying the firmware update of late October 2024.

Since then I have used only the internal amplification and I perceive no strain....

Did you ever need to turn the volume up to 0dB and they simply refused to play louder?

I don't recall turning it up to 0dB. I sit 11 feet away in a semi-open space of 3,500 cubic feet. I typically play music between -30dB and -10dB with most around -18dB

My B&W go down to 2.8 Ohm, but I honestly never need more than -20dB on the volume.. and that's maybe 20 Watts of power...

 

[MbphotoX]

Yes, during the first week of ownership when I sampled the internal amplification - I wonder if 'expectation bias' was at play...

I had external amplification and used the '505' as a preamplifier until shortly after applying the firmware update of late October 2024.

Since then I have used only the internal amplification and I perceive no strain....


I don't recall turning it up to 0dB. I sit 11 feet away in a semi-open space of 3,500 cubic feet. I typically play music between -30dB and -10dB with most around -18dB

Did you use Dirac at first, or after the update?
Did you use it once you switched to external amps?

The only change the fw update brought, was to Dirac, from what I can tell. (besides more streaming functionality)

New Firmware Brings Improved Functionality & Dirac Performance to Onkyo, Integra, Pioneer AVRs

Premium Audio Company, parent company of Onkyo, Integra, and Pioneer/Elite, released a firmware update for its AV Receivers which improves audio streaming quality and Dirac functionality and much more.

www.audioholics.com

Apparently, they improved the SOUND OF the relays switching in the PSU:

With regards to exp. bias:
Did you plan to use external amplification from the start and merely tested it without at first?
Did you read Amir's review before testing it?

Either way, you'd expect the power to be lacking, bc external amplifiers MUST sound better, right?

 

[Power Pop 23]

Did you use Dirac at first, or after the update?

I have been using Dirac at first and ever since

Did you use it once you switched to external amps?

Yes

The only change the fw update brought, was to Dirac, from what I can tell. (besides more streaming functionality)

New Firmware Brings Improved Functionality & Dirac Performance to Onkyo, Integra, Pioneer AVRs

Premium Audio Company, parent company of Onkyo, Integra, and Pioneer/Elite, released a firmware update for its AV Receivers which improves audio streaming quality and Dirac functionality and much more.

www.audioholics.com

Apparently, they improved the SOUND OF the relays switching in the PSU:

View attachment 424514

I missed that detail, thank you - I recall something seemingly more vague about just what the 'Improved Amplifier Power Supply Sequence' was meant to accomplish.

It is strictly an anecdotal sample size of '1' but I am more conscious of the sounds of 'relay clicks' since the update of late October 2024.

With regards to exp. bias:
Did you plan to use external amplification from the start and merely tested it without at first?

No, but I knew I could use external amplification if desired
EDIT: 7 of 9 channels were amplified by a nearly 51 pound Onkyo '805' AVR that would be a boat anchor but the 7 channel analog inputs still work !

Did you read Amir's review before testing it?

Yes

Either way, you'd expect the power to be lacking, bc external amplifiers MUST sound better, right?

I don't believe external amplifiers must sound better. I like the idea using external amplification to reduce the amount of heat generated in an AVR, so as to possibly prolong its service life.

 

[MbphotoX]

prolong the service life?
I keep reading that.. people shaming me for putting my AVRs inside a sideboard/lowboard, because "you're killing them"..
My old Pioneer was sold last spring, still working perfectly.. But it was ten years old already, and didn't support any of the new audio standards, hdr, native 4k, etc.

If the 505 lives 5 years, I'll be a happy camper, since in 5 years time, it's probably going to be outdated already, with lots of standards not supported.
Which is also why I don't bother buying "flagships".. the 805 is selling brand new for less than 2k USD today.. (regular price from official retailers in my country)
I got my 505 brand new for 800 USD and think it was fantastic value (again, never had ANY issues whatsoever)

 

[Power Pop 23]

prolong the service life?
I keep reading that.. people shaming me for putting my AVRs inside a sideboard/lowboard, because "you're killing them"..
My old Pioneer was sold last spring, still working perfectly.. But it was ten years old already, and didn't support any of the new audio standards, hdr, native 4k, etc.

If the 505 lives 5 years, I'll be a happy camper, since in 5 years time, it's probably going to be outdated already, with lots of standards not supported.
Which is also why I don't bother buying "flagships".. the 805 is selling brand new for less than 2k USD today.. (regular price from official retailers in my country)
I got my 505 brand new for 800 USD and think it was fantastic value (again, never had ANY issues whatsoever)

EDIT - posting removed because it was off-topic to this thread

 

[EWL5]

Which is also why I don't bother buying "flagships".. the 805 is selling brand new for less than 2k USD today.. (regular price from official retailers in my country)

I think Pioneer pulling their license from PAC has a lot to do with that! Very unlikely we will see any new Pioneer Elite AVRs in the near future!

 

[peng]

My B&W go down to 2.8 Ohm, but I honestly never need more than -20dB on the volume.. and that's maybe 20 Watts of power...

I moved on from the initial topics but now this is interesting. At -20 dB volume, it might be close to 20 watts (likely less, maybe closer to 10 watts, assuming the trims are at 0 and the recording level is to THX standard, so max digital signal at 0 dBFS), but only at the point it dips to 2.8 ohm and that 2.8 ohm is resistance lol.. I agreed with you that people seem to think a lot more "power" (put in quote only because I don't like that term) is needed when that's not the case for real world use.

To be fair, members like @dlaloum and @EWL5 never suggested that those test results indicated an issues for real world practical use for music or HT as such. Quotes from forums, such as AVSF, are just quotes of others and that sometimes might indicate some users could in fact have issues for whatever reasons. Same thing like SINAD, or SNR, just because the results are nowhere near the so called SOTA range, they are still often recommended for real world use.

 

[Power Pop 23]

I think Pioneer pulling their license from PAC has a lot to do with that! Very unlikely we will see any new Pioneer Elite AVRs in the near future!

It is my speculation that rather than Pioneer pulling their license that PAC chose not to renew the license so as to concentrate their resources on the Onkyo/Integra brands

 

[EWL5]

It is my speculation that rather than Pioneer pulling their license that PAC chose not to renew the license so as to concentrate their resources on the Onkyo/Integra brands

Yeah, either way you look at it, not looking good for Pioneer products from both a support and product availability point of view!

 

[Power Pop 23]

Yeah, either way you look at it, not looking good for Pioneer products from both a support and product availability point of view!

Nope. I can't think of a competing manufacturer who would benefit from licensing the Pioneer brand of audio electronics. If a license is available, I'd like to see Parts Express negotiate with Pioneer to revive production of select '2nd Gen' Pioneer loudspeakers designed by Andrew Jones.

 

[tbob22]

I thought you were talking about "limp mode" you referred to in your post#918, not "power saving" mode (whatever that one is) that you now seemed to be pointing to??

Amir's finding about the so called "limp mode":

He said "As we see, it pulls back around the same time. This time the AVR was running pretty cool indicating this limiting is time based, no environment. You only have your maximum power for 35 seconds after which, power is limited until you power cycle the unit!"



View attachment 423736

He didn't use the "limp" term in the Pioneer review, but apparently, though evidently, coined this term in his subsequent review on the Onkyo TX-NR7100, in which he stated:
Anyway, @EWL5 knows more about this mode, and I don't actually own one of those PAC AVRs so I am bowing out after this post and let EWL5 answers any further questions on this funny mode.

Onkyo TX-NR7100 AVR Review

That is such a small audience. It offers no functionality for 99% of users. Rather see them scrap it and offer upgrade cards to put in there like seen on more high-end equipment. Besides, your RetroTink will give you MUCH better image quality than this AVR will ever give you. But like I said...

www.audiosciencereview.com

What I've experienced with the 61c based power limiting on the NR7100 is that once it drops below 60c it will bring the power back up (monitoring watt meter). No need to restart the unit. Also at these higher temperatures the AVR is not really putting out that much heat. This was tested with a movie.

As others have mentioned running a bench test may cause it to go into a different limp mode which requires an unplug. It's also possible that recent firmware has changed the behavior.

 

[fadetoblackbs]

I have a silly question – thanks for answering.
I have this receiver and a 5.1 Speakersystem. I watch mostly streaming and the content from the main streaming options is also 5.1 so it fits well to my speaker setup. I was wondering if it makes sense to upgrade my setup with 2 high speakers on top – what would the AVR do if I add 2 high speakers but keep the source as 5.1 from the streaming service (fe Netflix) – does that make sense? It looks like that the only way that makes sense to have more speakers than 5.1 is if you watch movies from Blurays etc. with the right soundtrack and more sound channels (which is not currently my case). Thanks!

 

[EWL5]

I have a silly question – thanks for answering.
I have this receiver and a 5.1 Speakersystem. I watch mostly streaming and the content from the main streaming options is also 5.1 so it fits well to my speaker setup. I was wondering if it makes sense to upgrade my setup with 2 high speakers on top – what would the AVR do if I add 2 high speakers but keep the source as 5.1 from the streaming service (fe Netflix) – does that make sense? It looks like that the only way that makes sense to have more speakers than 5.1 is if you watch movies from Blurays etc. with the right soundtrack and more sound channels (which is not currently my case). Thanks!

I get a handful of Dolby Atmos tracks when streaming from my Apple TV (Max, Disney+, Netflix, etc.) that sends metadata beyond 5.1!

Do you have streaming services in Germany that do the same?

 

[Power Pop 23]

I have a silly question – thanks for answering.
I have this receiver and a 5.1 Speakersystem. I watch mostly streaming and the content from the main streaming options is also 5.1 so it fits well to my speaker setup. I was wondering if it makes sense to upgrade my setup with 2 high speakers on top – what would the AVR do if I add 2 high speakers but keep the source as 5.1 from the streaming service (fe Netflix) – does that make sense? It looks like that the only way that makes sense to have more speakers than 5.1 is if you watch movies from Blurays etc. with the right soundtrack and more sound channels (which is not currently my case). Thanks!

As I understand it, the AVR would up-mix your 5.1 sources to incorporate 2 high speakers. You may find the overall sound more immersive and to your liking. Consider auditioning loudspeakers with return privileges.

 

[fadetoblackbs]

I get a handful of Dolby Atmos tracks when streaming from my Apple TV (Max, Disney+, Netflix, etc.) that sends metadata beyond 5.1!

Do you have streaming services in Germany that do the same?

Well every time you choose a movie or series to watch fe on Netflix (I have the premium abo) it shows "4K, 5.1, Dolby Vision, etc." but I have never seen a number higher than 5.1 until now, also not on apple tv (I have the app on the smart-tv). Maybe this happens because my AVR is setup to 5.1? I dont know. Thanks

 

[EWL5]

Well every time you choose a movie or series to watch fe on Netflix (I have the premium abo) it shows "4K, 5.1, Dolby Vision, etc." but I have never seen a number higher than 5.1 until now, also not on apple tv (I have the app on the smart-tv). Maybe this happens because my AVR is setup to 5.1? I dont know. Thanks

Correct. "Atmos" has no reason to appear on the AVR screen if your setup is only 5.1.