Neumann KH 150 Monitor Review

[HIFIBOY]

Glad I have it, I will enjoy my favorite music.

 

[Trell]

You would not want to hold a larger diaphragm condensor microphone unlest you are into recording thumbing noise from fingers, anyways

The microphone SR314 I posted a picture of is a SDC handheld vocal microphone, thus why weight was mentioned.

 

[gino1961]

The SPL output is rarely "needed". The S360 is marketed for immersive studios, where many speakers will be positioned further away from the mixing console and higher SPL capabilities might be required. However, the unstrained sound of a compression driver at any output level is something to consider. If it is required for home listening is another thing...

hi thanks for the very kind and helpful advice
now that I have learnt that compression drivers have extremely low and musical distortion i would reconsidered them very seriously
I am focusing a 2 ways solution and the fact that a compression tweeter can go down even at 1kHz makes the combination with a 10 inches woofer possible Maybe even a 12 inches for a really full range speaker with just two drivers

 

[Pearljam5000]

Glad I have it, I will enjoy my favorite music.
View attachment 261424

How's the sound ?

 

[HIFIBOY]

How's the sound ?

Balanced, natural, listening, delicate, not flashy but everything is just right for my ears.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Balanced, natural, listening, delicate, not flashy but everything is just right for my ears.

Enough bass for EDM without a sub?

 

[Sokel]

Enough bass for EDM without a sub?

(if I was into EDM I would consider two 15" clean subs the minimum,and that's for modest level)

 

[HIFIBOY]

Enough bass for EDM without a sub?

I think any small size speaker should integrate subwoofer when listening to EDM, no subwoofer for EDM will lack some atmosphere and excitement, but will not affect the overall balance, you can still hear high-quality, elastic and clear low frequency.

 

[mj30250]

After running through MA 1 and adding a bass boost to taste, bass output from the 150s (at least nearfield) is incredibly impressive. The speakers can get extremely loud and punchy, but bass always retains a focus that never bleeds into overly boomy. It's an impressive combination of output and control that's extremely hard to achieve with such small drivers. Of course, they still aren't reaching into the deep / sub bass octave. It's easy to see where the bass dives off a cliff by simply looking at the measurements. If you are listening to music with appreciable material below that point, then yes, of course you will want a subwoofer (or multiple).

 

[neunoir]

Question.

I noticed that the speakers sound quite different with the 2 following setups:
1. Bluesound Node > digital coax Out > KH750 digital in > KH 750 digital out -> KH 150 digital in / out (so, fully digital)
2. Bluesound Node > usb out > Focusrite Scarlett > KH750 analog in > KH 750 digital out > KH 150 digital in / out (so, partially analog)

I much prefer the sound of 2; more transparant, cleaner (but I don't want yet another device in the chain)
How is this possible? Due to the DAC in the speakers? The difference in Analog and Digital inputs (I remember reading about someone with a similar experience here)?

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Question.

I noticed that the speakers sound quite different with the 2 following setups:
1. Bluesound Node > digital coax Out > KH750 digital in > KH 750 digital out -> KH 150 digital in / out (so, fully digital)
2. Bluesound Node > usb out > Focusrite Scarlett > KH750 analog in > KH 750 digital out > KH 150 digital in / out (so, partially analog)

I much prefer the sound of 2; more transparant, cleaner (but I don't want yet another device in the chain)
How is this possible? Due to the DAC in the speakers? The difference in Analog and Digital inputs (I remember reading about someone with a similar experience here)?

New Neumann MA 1 - Automatic Monitor Alignment

Any hints as to help getting the app not to crash? If you have this beta ma-1 software can you ping me a link to it pretty please ? I'm on windows and had no problems with crashing. I also tried it on my friend's M1 macbook pro and it had no problems. Sorry.

www.audiosciencereview.com

Posts 684-688

 

[neunoir]

Thanks for the effort!

So, exactly the same experiences...
Reading the link you shared, one conclusion is basically that the D/A conversion in the speakers is subpar and could better be handled by a superior DAC before the speakers.
That's disappointing, especially for the price and give more cable clutter.

Another thing that I could try is use RCA out on the Bluesound and use the inferior Bluesound DAC for the D/A conversion and hear how that sounds...

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Thanks for the effort!

So, exactly the same experiences...
Reading the link you shared, one conclusion is basically that the D/A conversion in the speakers is subpar and could better be handled by a superior DAC before the speakers.
That's disappointing, especially for the price and give more cable clutter.

Another thing that I could try is use RCA out on the Bluesound and use the inferior Bluesound DAC for the D/A conversion and hear how that sounds...

Yes, several people wrote they have noticed this. But one must keep in mind that it is really difficult to be sure under which circumstances there is actually an audible difference. As written above, I use the digital input of the KH750 and do not have the impression that anything has become worse than before when I used the analog input. But at the same time, I don't trust myself to be able to reliably hear that. Maybe you can hear better than I can, or maybe it just occurs that way under certain circumstances.

 

[Pearljam5000]

So the DAC in the KH150 is not good?

 

[neunoir]

Yes, several people wrote they have noticed this. But one must keep in mind that it is really difficult to be sure under which circumstances there is actually an audible difference. As written above, I use the digital input of the KH750 and do not have the impression that anything has become worse than before when I used the analog input. But at the same time, I don't trust myself to be able to reliably hear that. Maybe you can hear better than I can, or maybe it just occurs that way under certain circumstances.

But interesting enough that more people post about this independently and with the same observations.

I was doing MA1 alignment and was very happy with the results when playing music through my laptop to test results (which means route 2: focusrite + analog).
When disconnecting my laptop and removing all cables, I started listening music through the Node again (route 1: digital) and was not so happy anymore. Where was the engaging music?

Then I added the Focusrite to the output of the Node and again, connected the KH 750 through analog. And again I was happy with what I heard.
So I was really not looking for a difference in sound. Just noticed it by switching back to fully digital.

 

[audafreak]

Thanks for the effort!

So, exactly the same experiences...
Reading the link you shared, one conclusion is basically that the D/A conversion in the speakers is subpar and could better be handled by a superior DAC before the speakers.
That's disappointing, especially for the price and give more cable clutter.

Another thing that I could try is use RCA out on the Bluesound and use the inferior Bluesound DAC for the D/A conversion and hear how that sounds...

This case is not about quality of DA conversion. Internal DA is used always in KH750, see block diagrams.
Difference is that using analog input you have one DA (external DAC) and one AD (KH750) conversion more comparing digi input. So theoretically analog should be worse. But probably not always.
Line analog is DAC DA, KH750 AD,DSP,DA, monitor AD,DSP,DA
Line digital is ---------------- KH750 DSP, DA, monitor AD,DSP,DA

I think Bluesound analog out is not so great. Even Focusrite is not great but probably much better. I have both Focusrite and RME and RME is again another level. My tests were with RME. I am not sure about results if I would use Focusrite.
Last week I tried very high quality drums recording in Jriver player 24/384kHz SOX resampled to 48kHz and for the first time it seemed to me better on digital input.

 

[neunoir]

Thanks @audafreak
2 questions for my understanding:

1: Why the DA conversion from KH750 to KH150 and again AD in the KH150 when everything could stay digital in your example / the digital chain? (Bluesound Digital out, KH750 Digital in / out, KH150 Digital in / Analog out)?

2: If the case is not about quality of DA conversion because internal DA is always used in the KH750, why does it matter wha DAC you use in front of the chain? And again, what could be the reason multiple users experience the same downgrade in perceived sound quality when staying digital even though the extra conversion should actually degrade sound quality?

For me, also adding an RME would be out of budget
I just received a discount code for a WiiM pro and I could try that one combined with a Topping E70 for example (and accept losing HDMI ARC)

 

[audafreak]

1. I have KH80, they don't have digital input, so in my case connection between KH750 and KH80 is analog - so some more conversions.
2. I am one of those "multiple users". Probably misunderstanding. Of course quality of EXTERNAL DAC if used for analog input is important. Quality of INTERNAL DA inside monitors is fixed, we cannot change it. That is what I was talking about. Sorry for maybe not exact formulation.

In fact I use 95% of time digital input via RME UCXII which serves also as digital volume controller, now only sometimes I switch to some Linux player to playback some music and DSD via analog from RME ADI2 DAC. For most of music and video input difference is not much noticeable so I don't care so much.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Which has a better built in DAC
Genelec 8350 or KH150?

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Which has a better built in DAC
Genelec 8350 or KH150?