Genelec 8330+7350 or Neumann KH 120 II+KH750 for casual music enjoyment

[Netrunner]

I just received Genelecs 8330 from the shop (from local store in Poland, the price was a bit lower than in Thomann), they were sold as new and I was quite surprised how they were packed. Maybe I'm exaggerating, but from what I saw on YouTube, the monitors arrived in an "outer" box and an additional "inner" box. In my case, the monitors were in the box below only and were only closed with these metal "staples".

However, when I connected the monitors to the computer, one of them immediately turned on automatically after plugging it into the power supply (as if someone had already turned it on and unplugged it... so it arrived already "turned on"), while I had to turn the other one on manually.
What do you think, is it possible that I received exhibition/used monitors sold as new? I checked them carefully after unpacking and I admit that I did not notice any signs of use.

Should I be concerned? What do you think? (I covered the serial number on the picture of the box)

 

[LTig]

A KH750 is special as it can even calibrate the connected genelec 8020a, something the Genelec 73xx sub will not do. That will give yet another big improvement (if it's not already done).

In my case I feed the KH750 via SPDIF from my RME ADI2 PRO fs, and from there via XLR to the Genelecs. I set the volume of the sub by ear and felt no need to go further (like measure FR and use EQ) as it sounds just perfect. I did measure FR with the old sub and there was no need for room eq back then, so the locations of the speakers seem to be good.

 

[LTig]

I just received Genelecs 8330 from the shop (from local store in Poland, the price was a bit lower than in Thomann), they were sold as new and I was quite surprised how they were packed. Maybe I'm exaggerating, but from what I saw on YouTube, the monitors arrived in an "outer" box and an additional "inner" box. In my case, the monitors were in the box below only and were only closed with these metal "staples".

However, when I connected the monitors to the computer, one of them immediately turned on automatically after plugging it into the power supply (as if someone had already turned it on and unplugged it... so it arrived already "turned on"), while I had to turn the other one on manually.
What do you think, is it possible that I received exhibition/used monitors sold as new? I checked them carefully after unpacking and I admit that I did not notice any signs of use.

Should I be concerned? What do you think? (I covered the serial number on the picture of the box)

I wouldn't be concerned. Maybe one speaker was not switched off after final test, or was picked for an additional test. If it works it works. If not it's under warranty.

 

[Halbknapp]

I Double down on that - if they work and there is no visual scratches or similar it should be fine and they will work for decades. You can register them with genelec and therefore see that the serial was never registered before.
If they turn on is automatically is dependent on the settings and the input given as you typically set them to auto turn on with enough signal (but I don't know the default). Best is to do a GLM Setup first if you have GLM or a factory reset if not (see back side note on monitors).

 

[Halbknapp]

In my case I feed the KH750 via SPDIF from my RME ADI2 PRO fs, and from there via XLR to the Genelecs. I set the volume of the sub by ear and felt no need to go further (like measure FR and use EQ) as it sounds just perfect. I did measure FR with the old sub and there was no need for room eq back then, so the locations of the speakers seem to be good.

For music listening if They sound good it's good.

 

[Kyle_PL]

I just received Genelecs 8330 from the shop (from local store in Poland, the price was a bit lower than in Thomann), they were sold as new and I was quite surprised how they were packed. Maybe I'm exaggerating, but from what I saw on YouTube, the monitors arrived in an "outer" box and an additional "inner" box. In my case, the monitors were in the box below only and were only closed with these metal "staples".

Mine too. I bought them from MusicCenter, but they was sended directly from Konsbud. So packaking is original. Outer box, and inner box have Genelec Subs (but they dont have styrofoam).

Genelec 8330 unboxing:

Let's use this genelec 7360 under my desk as example

Can You post on forum, PrintScreen from GLM software, subwoofer measurement frequency plot?

 

[Halbknapp]

Can You post on forum, PrintScreen from GLM software, subwoofer measurement frequency plot?

Here we go:

Here is the left Speaker, a 8341. You see that it also extends down to below 40Hz but by default with severe dips and lower average bass level. GLM is generally not a fan of boosting Bass level so thats what you get without a lot of manual tinkering.

 

[Kyle_PL]

GLM is generally not a fan of boosting Bass level

Boosting is not good, for mechanics (suspensions) and power (+3dB = 2x more power) - so more boost = more THD. So i'm not boosting fan too (Genelec know what is doing)

 

[Halbknapp]

Boosting is not good, for mechanics (suspensions) and power (+3dB = 2x more power) - so more boost = more THD. So i'm not boosting fan too (Genelec know what is doing)

Which is in my opinion not correct. Boosting costs headroom (and as you say increases THD). But a mild boost of 3 or 4 db just costs you these 3 or 4 db that you may never use when playing at moderate levels. On the other hand it will give you more even bass response that is not only much more pleasing but also much more accourate. On the other hand at subwoofer Level genelec does exactly that - they boost the lower frequencies wherever needed. of course it is not shown as a boost but instead as lowering some frequencies and lowering volume of the satelite speakers and then (you) increase the overall volume to get to same overall level as before. But thats just the same as boosting in the first place, just with a different workflow. And yes, consequently the subwoofer can not nearly get as loud in the lowest frequencies.

 

[Kyle_PL]

This -9,6dB on satellite is compensation for equal volume with subwoofer?

 

[Halbknapp]

This -9,6dB on satellite is compensation for equal volume with subwoofer?

It is. You could see it as a relative boost that the sub gets.

As i just played with GLM a bit it seems that the very default setting for Volume is higher if there is a sub connected and active in setup. That is like - oh - you got a sub so we give you extra headroom for the Satelite Speakers as they dont need to play the power intensive Bass Frequencies.

And i can tell that in my specific Situation with and without Sub is night and Day sound wise. That is obviously because the placement of the Satellites has low bass yield, even if the Satelites themselves are somewhat capable. Other peoples outcome may be different though and Genelec as well as Neumann recommend to place the speakers against a wall to increase Bass output (and then use the measurement System fo filter out excessive bass). I cant do that as the "wall" behind is a window that i need to open or access for AC mounting.

 

[Netrunner]

I finally decided to order both the Genelecs 8330 and the Neumann KH 120 II to test them with my own ears and I have to admit that after a short test, both are really great when it comes to music (with a slight preference for the Genelecs, in the case of the Neumanns I sometimes get the impression that the lower end "drowned out" the higher sounds). When it comes to the effects when watching movies, I would say that the Neumanns have the advantage here. With the caveat that I haven't calibrated them using GLM and MA1 yet.

However, either I'm doing something wrong or Genelecs 8330 generate such noise that even when watching movies on YouTube from a distance of about 80 cm I can hear their hiss (!) which is quite audible even from such distance. When I put my ear to both it is really clearly audible, while Neumanns generate practically zero hiss and absolutely crystal clear speech sound. When I read posts from people on the forum complaining that some speakers emit hiss I thought they were exaggerating (or that I was insensitive to it), but now I am really shocked. Both Genelecs and Neumanns I connected fully digital but I don't know if it matters and should I test the analog connection then instead?

I would like to kindly ask you for your opinion/advice and from people who own Genelecs to share their experience whether they do not have such a problem.

 

[Halbknapp]

I finally decided to order both the Genelecs 8330 and the Neumann KH 120 II to test them with my own ears and I have to admit that after a short test, both are really great when it comes to music (with a slight preference for the Genelecs, in the case of the Neumanns I sometimes get the impression that the lower end "drowned out" the higher sounds). When it comes to the effects when watching movies, I would say that the Neumanns have the advantage here. With the caveat that I haven't calibrated them using GLM and MA1 yet.

However, either I'm doing something wrong or Genelecs 8330 generate such noise that even when watching movies on YouTube from a distance of about 80 cm I can hear their hiss (!) which is quite audible even from such distance. When I put my ear to both it is really clearly audible, while Neumanns generate practically zero hiss and absolutely crystal clear speech sound. When I read posts from people on the forum complaining that some speakers emit hiss I thought they were exaggerating (or that I was insensitive to it), but now I am really shocked. Both Genelecs and Neumanns I connected fully digital but I don't know if it matters and should I test the analog connection then instead?

I would like to kindly ask you for your opinion/advice and from people who own Genelecs to share their experience whether they do not have such a problem.

I used my 8330 and 8341 digital and I have never heard any hiss from one of them. Same for The KH150 from Neumann I have.
However, i noticed that in the very beginning the Genelec 8330 that were on an older firmware had a problem with digital signal and made noises that was resolved by GLM bringing them to the newest version via firmware update. I can't tell if you got the same problem but it may be worth a try. Do they also hiss without a signal (like - cable unplugged, digital silence I would still count as an input).

 

[Netrunner]

Initially I had the volume level set to minimum in Windows and -10 dB in GLM. However, when I did the opposite and set the volume to maximum in Windows and -60 dB in GLM, the problem disappeared. I don't understand why it works this way, but I'm very glad that this problem was solved.

By the way - what bitrate should I have set in Windows? Is 24 bit 48000 Hz sufficient?

 

[Halbknapp]

Full digital volume in the Genelecs is very very loud. Best is to change volume at the last possible step (in this case the speakers) but you don't loose too much If you set GLM to a reasonable value so that maxed out windows and media player volime settings give you as much volume out of the speakers as you want and then use media player or windows to attenuate.

Basically 24 bit and 48khz would be best but keep in mind that specifically windows will introduce audible artifacts when volume is 100% and it has to resample from 44khz to 48khz (like playing Spotify or any local media in CD quality and sending to the Genelecs with windows set. To 48khz). This can be avoided by setting the windows volume only to 95 instead of 100.

 

[teashea]

I don't know the Genelec, but my advise is to start without a subwoofer. This keeps things much more simple and the KH120II are very capable already. You can get a sub anytime later, if you think you need it.
There is a big difference between KH80 and 120II, the 80s are good, but much smaller and more limited. I would chose the 80s over the 120II only if it has to be as small as possible.

I very much agree with this. The reproduction of very low bass is rarely needed. While there are a few songs in a few genres where there is significant bass below 40 Hz, it is quite infrequent. In fact, with the variety of Neumann monitors in my studio, I often do not use my KH750.

Consider what instruments and what music actually acts below 40 Hz. Almost none.

 

[teashea]

Under 400Hz waves are "omnidirectional" - no matter if radiated from satellites, or subwoofer.

An excellent point.

 

[teashea]

KH120II+KH750DSP will give much deeper bass, than KH150 alone.

True, but when is they actually used?

 

[Halbknapp]

True, but when is they actually used?

The answer is most of the time. I have KH150 and medium size bookshelf Speakers that too have a 1"/7" driver Combo. You can tell the difference on the bass on almost every track (that has at least some bass) and the passive Bookshelf Speaker sounds better. That's not only by the slightly deeper extension but by the much less steep rolloff of the passive speaker over the KH150.
Most of these active speakers have highpass for low frequency below the tuning frequency which prevents the Woofer from overexcursion where it is not offloaded by the port. But this behavior also means some low end is given up.
So you can enjoy music without the 30 to 40 Hz content but it sounds different. A typical "solution" is to turn up the upper bass but it's not the same.

 

[Halbknapp]

To be clear the KH120ii or KH150 or Genelec 8330 would all be great, even without a sub. It's just my opinion from having used some of these with and without a sub that a sub is worth it if it can be afforded.