Keep KH 750 sub or switch speakers

[Oladodo]

Hello,

I am in sort of a dilemma. I just added the KH 750 to my KH 120a's but discovered extreme peaks around 30hz after calibration. When listening the sub feels absent. I tried the recommended placement at 1/4 of width as advised by Neumann. I also tried placing the sub next to desk and could feel the sub a bit more, but still had the extreme peaks.

My questions:
Do you have any idea where placing the sub could get better results?
Would it otherwise be simpler to switch back to a simple stereo system with speakers that can go lower compared to KH 120 (for example KH 150)?

Thank you

 

[staticV3]

Hi @Oladodo! Welcome to ASR.

Do you have any idea where placing the sub could get better results?

Try using the Room Simulator built into Room EQ Wizard

 

[alex-z]

Your problem is targeting a flat response. This does not produce a pleasing or accurate sound, human hearing has low bass sensitivity at low volumes.

Equal-loudness contour - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

For a mixing environment I would recommend a 5-6dB boost, starting around 120Hz and peaking at 40-50Hz.

A subwoofer is a net benefit. Even if your speakers could play flat to 20Hz you may find the optimal location for bass response conflicts with stereo imaging, subwoofers provide setup flexibility.

The KH750 is quite expensive relative to its output capability, you pay $1000-1200 extra for the extensive input and configuration options. If you are comfortable with manual setup I would seriously consider something like a pair of SVS SB-1000 Pro + miniDSP Flex for integration.

 

[unpluggged]

Hello,

I am in sort of a dilemma. I just added the KH 750 to my KH 120a's but discovered extreme peaks around 30hz after calibration. When listening the sub feels absent. I tried the recommended placement at 1/4 of width as advised by Neumann. I also tried placing the sub next to desk and could feel the sub a bit more, but still had the extreme peaks.

My questions:
Do you have any idea where placing the sub could get better results?
Would it otherwise be simpler to switch back to a simple stereo system with speakers that can go lower compared to KH 120 (for example KH 150)?

Thank you

Your setup and your calibration results are nothing to be worried about. The MA 1 did a good job. It's perhaps you are not accustomed to correct bass extension being used to the huge room boost.

 

[boxerfan88]

When listening the sub feels absent.

The bass is too "flat" that's why the bass feels absent. Take the advise of post #3.

I'd suggest you start by adding a LF shelf of +3dB at the suggested 120Hz.
If the bass is still not enough, increase it to your liking.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Hello,

I am in sort of a dilemma. I just added the KH 750 to my KH 120a's but discovered extreme peaks around 30hz after calibration. When listening the sub feels absent. I tried the recommended placement at 1/4 of width as advised by Neumann. I also tried placing the sub next to desk and could feel the sub a bit more, but still had the extreme peaks.

My questions:
Do you have any idea where placing the sub could get better results?
Would it otherwise be simpler to switch back to a simple stereo system with speakers that can go lower compared to KH 120 (for example KH 150)?

Thank you

The calibration looks good, peaks before calibration are no problem at all. Your room is probably very dry and you are sitting close, so Neumann's more flat target is very reasonable. The sub should sound absent.
General recommendations like "+5db" are not valid for every room. Neumann knows distance and reverberation and calculates a specific target for your room. I would start with that and try getting used to it. You can always tune to taste, of course.

 

[Oladodo]

Ok guys thanks a lot for your answers. I am still a newbie so I am certainly overthinking this

@staticV3 Thanks for advice Just tried room simulator in REW for first time and it is very helpful, showed me exactly the extreme peak and how to reduce it

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Ok guys thanks a lot for your answers. I am still a newbie so I am certainly overthinking this

@staticV3 Thanks for advice Just tried room simulator in REW for first time and it is very helpful, showed me exactly the extreme peak and how to reduce it

The peak is good, i think, because it reduces the load for the sub and therefore distortion. In theory at least. But you can try a different position, of course. Just look for dips in the FR, these a much more problematic than peaks. Avoiding peaks in bass is only relevant if you don't use DSP, AFAIK.

 

[Oladodo]

Ok good to know. From what I checked on room simulator I have two possible options, will try both. Probably the one centered makes more sense as I will have fewer dips. Thank you!

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Ok good to know. From what I checked on room simulator I have two possible options, will try both. Probably the one centered makes more sense as I will have fewer dips. Thank you!

I don't really see dips. I think both simulations look good. I wish i had such a good (big) room. In my 3×5m room things are much worse.
If you only have 1 sub, more centered may sound more balanced than hard left or right (FR is not everything).

 

[teashea]

Hello,

I am in sort of a dilemma. I just added the KH 750 to my KH 120a's but discovered extreme peaks around 30hz after calibration. When listening the sub feels absent. I tried the recommended placement at 1/4 of width as advised by Neumann. I also tried placing the sub next to desk and could feel the sub a bit more, but still had the extreme peaks.

My questions:
Do you have any idea where placing the sub could get better results?
Would it otherwise be simpler to switch back to a simple stereo system with speakers that can go lower compared to KH 120 (for example KH 150)?

Thank you

The KH750 has a very flat frequency response. The problem you are experiencing are due to room acoustics. That is the issue, not the KH750's.

 

[Kyle_PL]

For a mixing environment I would recommend a 5-6dB boost, starting around 120Hz and peaking at 40-50Hz.

Yea, and mix will don't have bass. I recommend set "FLAT" and mix at reference levels.

 

[teashea]

Yea, and mix will don't have bass. I recommend set "FLAT" and mix at reference levels.

Precisely................................. and amen

 

[dasherzx]

play john wick tracks and turn the sub on and off to appreciate what the sub does
anyways i decided against the 750, especially when I could get dual (hell, quad if you know where to look) subs for the price of one

 

[teashea]

play john wick tracks and turn the sub on and off to appreciate what the sub does
anyways i decided against the 750, especially when I could get dual (hell, quad if you know where to look) subs for the price of one

quality over quantity

 

[ckernel8]

quality over quantity

For the price of the KH750, you could get both, just not from Neumann.

 

[unpluggged]

For the price of the KH750, you could get both, just not from Neumann.

For the price of $3750, you can have twenty-three units of the Rode NT1 Signature Series microphone that is almost as good as the Neumann U87Ai. But twenty-three NT1 Signature Series will not make up for one U87Ai.

 

[dasherzx]

quality over quantity

Yes, specs and features look real good. I hope I can demo them someday. But I don't regret my purchase of dual 15 inch subs for 1200$. I have a feeling I could go lower like this, taking accuracy out of the question. I pondered between these options for awhile, and OPs claim of it being absent was what i feared, because I used to only have one sub and that was exactly what i felt with my old 10 inch.

Anyways, I wonder if doing the sub crawl would help for op.

 

[ckernel8]

For the price of $3750, you can have twenty-three units of the Rode NT1 Signature Series microphone that is almost as good as the Neumann U87Ai. But twenty-three NT1 Signature Series will not make up for one U87Ai.

No, I'm saying for $1750 (the price of the KH 750) you can get a subwoofer with more output (quantity) and less distortion (quality), and you can, it's a Rythmik F12.

 

[Oladodo]

Just wanted to report that after trying out the setup for the last weeks, the calibration works really well with sub centered in front of me. I didn't change the settings Neumann calbration set and am now really satisfied with the result.
Also understood that I would need some serious bass absorption in the back if I wanted to fix the room mode at around 28hz.