NAD M10 Streaming Amplifier Lab Report...

[BillG]

hi-finews.com has run a performance analysis on the NAD M10 streaming, integrated amplifier recently, and this is what they found - I can't attest to the validity of it , though:

https://www.hifinews.com/content/na...D9n4b7tm6LTlTdnOSckzOkeUSRpqQVmoBBK-xVlCa6jOA

 

[Daverz]

Nice big screen and text display. I'll have to check out the Gil Evans Orchestra.

I think this product category is not of much interest for those with even modest technical abilities who can put together their own streamer, even with a touch display if desired, while allowing for attention to the audio quality.

 

[BillG]

I think this product category is not of much interest for those with even modest technical abilities who can put together their own streamer, even with a touch display if desired, while allowing for attention to the audio quality.

I'm a software engineer with over three decades of experience, and a Masters in Computer Science. I'm interested in it...

 

[watchnerd]

I'm a software engineer with over three decades of experience, and a Masters in Computer Science. I'm interested in it...

Likewise.

I'm sure I could build something with similar functionality, but lack the spare time compared to other life / audio obligations.

Plus mine would likely be uglier.

 

[ahofer]

You know, good cheap streaming technology deserves a thread here. I've been tempted by the Sonore line, as well as the Orchard PecanPi recently posted.

I am a "clicker" by nature, so I'm not afraid to futz around with servers (minimserver), control point software (Bubble), and renderers (Cambridge, Chromecast, KEF). But I'm often surprised at how much extra....jiggling...it sometimes takes when suddenly they decide not to see a renderer or play at null volume (and my system is wired!). It just doesn't work that smoothly, unless one of you knows a solution that does.

 

[Bamyasi]

You know, good cheap streaming technology deserves a thread here. I've been tempted by the Sonore line, as well as the Orchard PecanPi recently posted.

I am a "clicker" by nature, so I'm not afraid to futz around with servers (minimserver), control point software (Bubble), and renderers (Cambridge, Chromecast, KEF). But I'm often surprised at how much extra....jiggling...it sometimes takes when suddenly they decide not to see a renderer or play at null volume (and my system is wired!). It just doesn't work that smoothly, unless one of you knows a solution that does.

If you think the firmware inside those brand name all-in-one boxes always runs smoothly then you are an optimist. Hard to believe such attitude can survive a career in software engineering. Unless maybe you've just graduated?

 

[BillG]

Likewise.

I'm sure I could build something with similar functionality, but lack the spare time compared to other life / audio obligations.

Plus mine would likely be uglier.

Yeah, I could probably build something quite like it as well. However, as with personal computers, I'm quite bored with screwing with hardware and am quite happy to pay someone else to do the job for me at this point in my life...

 

[ahofer]

If you think the firmware inside those brand name all-in-one boxes always runs smoothly then you are an optimist. Hard to believe such attitude can survive a career in software engineering. Unless maybe you've just graduated?

Oh, I know it doesn't, from personal experience. I'm suggesting that perhaps some implementations are more hardened than others and it would be good to have some reviews that tested them. To my knowledge, there's very little of that. I suspect the most reliable setups are the ones that move the media to local and get off the network ASAP. But that comes with some of its own baggage.

I'm no software engineer. I'm old, and learned what programming I know starting in Fortran and Basic. But my son does code audit for a living, and he certainly has nothing but contempt for most of the software he gets to troubleshoot.

 

[BillG]

You know, good cheap streaming technology deserves a thread here. I've been tempted by the Sonore line, as well as the Orchard PecanPi recently posted.

There are a number of threads here already dedicated to the Pi family of SBCs...

 

[Bamyasi]

Oh, I know it doesn't, from personal experience. I'm suggesting that perhaps some implementations are more hardened than others and it would be good to have some reviews that tested them. To my knowledge, there's very little of that. I suspect the most reliable setups are the ones that move the media to local and get off the network ASAP. But that comes with some of its own baggage.

I'm no software engineer. I'm old, and learned what programming I know starting in Fortran and Basic. But my son does code audit for a living, and he certainly has nothing but contempt for most of the software he gets to troubleshoot.

Sorry, I was looking at BillG's post when replying to yours. I've actually also started with Fortran but quickly switched to C. The jury is still out on using which one of these languages results in more software bugs but one thing is for certain: it's a lot. And I do not see much progress happening recently, rather otherwise. You son's job is safe for years to come. Unfortunately, most consumer grade software is not subjected to any kind of audit and software developers have no obligation nor legal responsibility for producing quality code.

In my personal experience, the only practical countermeasure is to a) always keep software (firmware) part as a separate box if possible and b) use open source software with active community support. That's why I would rather stay away from any proprietary "smart" integrated products.

Also consider security implications, especially for hardware connected to network. Couple years later company releases a new model and stops providing updates to your box, what would you do? I am typing this looking at my wireless router (perfectly good and relatively recent model) which had not received its updates for more than a year now. What options do I have? Throw it away and buy myself a new one. Or install OpenWRT and spend next couple months trying to make it work. Frankly, I prefer to pay for the former but routers are less expensive compared to HiFi...

 

[BillG]

Sorry, I was looking at BillG's post when replying to yours.

Well, if you were aiming your comments about career and education at me, your arrogance is astounding and your opinion is worthless. It's a good thing we don't work together, as I'd to everything in my power to ensure that you were fired, up to and including any number of dirty tricks that would point right back to you...

 

[restorer-john]

The NAD is yet another product that falls significantly short on its optimistic specifications.

It's worth about AU$599 on a good day.

But it costs, wait for it, AU$3999. That's absolutely hilarious. The Master's Series was never terribly good value, right from the very first ones back in 2002 or so. I see things haven't changed one bit.

 

[Bamyasi]

Well, if you were aiming your comments about career and education at me, your arrogance is astounding and your opinion is worthless. It's a good thing we don't work together, as I'd to everything in my power to ensure that you were fired, up to and including any number of dirty tricks that would point right back to you...

Good for me I have decided not to go when a friend of mine offered me a job down under once, many many years ago

I had another friend from New Zealand back then, she was a Cobol programmer. Told me there were more sheep in New Zealand than the total country's population, is this still true?

 

[Thomas savage]

Well, if you were aiming your comments about career and education at me, your arrogance is astounding and your opinion is worthless. It's a good thing we don't work together, as I'd to everything in my power to ensure that you were fired, up to and including any number of dirty tricks that would point right back to you...

 

[JJB70]

This seems pretty expensive for what it is and the performance. Obviously not TotalDAC expensive (it is bargain basement super good value compared to TotalDAC) but I agree with Restorer John on this one. The regular NAD range has tended to offer pretty decent value but their master range has always struck me as a marketing led response to the realisation that there is a market that wants to spend more on the basis that expensive is best without taking much interest in what is inside or actual performance.

 

[Juhazi]

Good for me I have decided not to go when a friend of mine offered me a job down under once, many many years ago

I had another friend from New Zealand back then, she was a Cobol programmer. Told me there were more sheep in New Zealand than the total country's population, is this still true?

I guess all bucks are counted as sheep..

 

[ahofer]

This seems pretty expensive for what it is and the performance. Obviously not TotalDAC expensive (it is bargain basement super good value compared to TotalDAC) but I agree with Restorer John on this one. The regular NAD range has tended to offer pretty decent value but their master range has always struck me as a marketing led response to the realisation that there is a market that wants to spend more on the basis that expensive is best without taking much interest in what is inside or actual performance.

All too common, I'm afraid.

 

[HamNRye]

This actually checks a lot of the boxes for me: small form factor to fit in/on my shallow console, Dirac room correction, clean power with HypeX, hdmi input, DAC...

But it doesn't support the ecosystem I'm already tied to: Google Play Music, Google Assistant and Chromecast. I could connect it to my Android TV which already supports this ecosystem. But at that price, I feel like I'm paying quite a premium for features I won't be using.

I'm hoping NAD will come out with a similar product, perhaps in their regular range, without the screen and BluOS and of course the hefty price tag.

 

[Dj7675]

This actually checks a lot of the boxes for me: small form factor to fit in/on my shallow console, Dirac room correction, clean power with HypeX, hdmi input, DAC...

But it doesn't support the ecosystem I'm already tied to: Google Play Music, Google Assistant and Chromecast. I could connect it to my Android TV which already supports this ecosystem. But at that price, I feel like I'm paying quite a premium for features I won't be using.

I'm hoping NAD will come out with a similar product, perhaps in their regular range, without the screen and BluOS and of course the hefty price tag.

I have been eyeing this as well for our living room and it does check off a great deal of my boxes as well.
Compact modern looking
Dirac
Roon endpoint
Enough power
It is also very appealing because if a family member wants to listen to music via roon, it switches inputs automatically. Bonus is the screen showing what is playing.
I was also concidering the NAD C658 as well as the NAD T758 v3 for the living room. While the T758 is a home theater receiver, I think it would do just fine in a living room setup. I actually have one in our theater as well. The T758 also is a Roon endpoint and can power a second zone (although I think it is limited to analog sources which is bazaar).

 

[BillG]

But it doesn't support the ecosystem I'm already tied to: Google Play Music, Google Assistant and Chromecast.

And since it has an HDMI and Optical inputs, just connect a Chromecast dongle to it and go!

I've a similar situation in that I own a Play-Fi enabled integrated amplifier. However, I was invested the Google Cast platform prior to purchasing it. So, I connected my Chromecast Audio to it via optical, and have access to both platforms now. Me happy...