NAD C 316BEE V2 Integrated Amplifier Review

[pogo]

"The other reason to select the C 316BEE V2 is that its Class AB design sounds more robust and certainly warmer than any of the current network amplifiers from WiiM Audio, Arylic, or even Bluesound."

That sums it up quite well and the little brother received a similar rating from us: Link

 

[Svend P]

That sums it up quite well and the little brother received a similar rating from us: Link

What does robust sound like?

 

[DanielT]

Speaking of class AB vs class D. Some random thoughts:
(what is said below is nothing new for you who hang out here at ASR)

What speaks for class AB is their usually pancake flat FR. Small, cheap class D amplifiers CAN be load dependent and thus not have this pancake flat FR.

Should it become standard for all manufacturers of class D to create amplifiers with straight FR within the ENTIRE frequency range (max deviation, lets say 0.5 dB), then the class AB amplifier era is completely over. That's my guess anyway.

SINAD and these small class D amps are usually nothing to complain about. In most cases, at least completely guaranteed for me, so good it's inaudible. So it's already solved, or let's say construction standard (even though it's not formally a standard).

Class D's biggest advantage is that you get a lot of power from a physically small amplifier.Amp guru Bruno Putzeys would most likely agree with that. In fact, I think I actually said that.

Class AB benefits other than the mentioned. Hmm, perhaps stylish design, the appealing vintage looks on old amps/receivers that many seem to like? That in and of itself is a matter of taste and has nothing to do with the sound quality. If there is demand, any manufacturer of class D amps is free to create a look that sells.

 

[Schlippwhip68]

Well yes, you are correct, the author did say that. I guess that I just liked the generally favorable review of this splendid little amp. It reminds me of my Advent 300 that I had many years ago.

I have to admit I am quite happy about Amirs review here too.

 

[Schlippwhip68]

What does robust sound like?

Strong delivery of frequency via appropriate speakers.

 

[Schlippwhip68]

Does Cambridge Audio's similarly-priced amp series perform as well as this? Thanks!

Not nearly as powerful as the Nad. The AXA35 is a nice sounding amp regardless. The Rotel A8 is also in the same ball park as the Nad but again only 30wpc so it will be like the AXA35 where a quiet room is needed unlike the Nad which they are noted for historically speaking and long may they continue as far as I am concerned.

 

[Schlippwhip68]

Oh, and one other thing I remember noticing, something that wasn't a problem with real-world use but was a little surprising nonetheless:

When I had a source active (like a CD being played into the CD input), if I switched to another adjacent input, I could hear the CD very faintly on the unused input. Yes, I had to put my ear fairly close to the speakers to hear it, but I was still surprised that this much crosstalk was happening between inputs.

You could use shorting plugs to eliminate any crosstalk.

 

[Svend P]

Strong delivery of frequency via appropriate speakers.

LOL. And only class AB can do this why?

 

[Schlippwhip68]

Thanks for the test Amir!

Actually a pretty cute and nice looking NAD. Too bad it seems to get so hot. But is it very hot? Doesn't it wear hard on the electronics? Reduced lifespan of the capacitors in it?

Those class AB based amplifiers designed by Bjorn Erik Edvardsen seem to deliver good results, so does this one:

Review and Measurements of NAD C 320BEE PWR Amplifier

This is a review and detailed measurements of the NAD C 320BEE power (speaker) amplifier. It is on kind loan. The C 320BEE is a vintage product, dating back to 2003 I think. The BEE designation is apparently a reference to Bjorn Erik Edvardsen who was one of their designers. Can't tell if he...

audiosciencereview.com

Out of curiosity, I will check what the auction for a used NAD C 316BEE ends at. About three hours left. Starting bid $80.
View attachment 385876
Edit:
No bid. The seller restarted the auction with the starting bid of $66
View attachment 385923

I wouldn’t say it gets hot, warmer than some but not hot. I have a small quiet fan pointing down into the grill during the summer which works perfectly well in keeping the amp just about cold, but again it’s not hot to touch. I have had Studio Monitors in the past where you couldn’t touch them and the Nad is nowhere near that kind of heat.

 

[Schlippwhip68]

LOL. And only class AB can do this why?

Not too sure if only class a/b can do that these days especially on more expensive gear but entry level gear is where class a/b will probably have a more full sound than class d entry level. It certainly has on 99% of the amps I have ever used. The sound is generally more 3 dimensional over class d, more immersive. Class d can be great for super clean detailing in the music but it can also lack depth so you have like a thin sheet of music in front of you and in my experience that can be quite tiring to listen to whereas with a warmer more 3 dimensional sound I found it more comfortable for longer listening sessions and class a/b seems to be able to do that a lot easier in general compared to class d. Class d was mainly designed for Cars and PA systems for convenience more than anything else and as time went by more of that time has been given to focusing on actual sound quality…

 

[DanielT]

LOL. And only class AB can do this why?

Non-straight FR, load dependent, non-existent PFFB implementation exist for some (most of them?) TI TPA 32XX chip based amplifiers that Amir tests.

On the other hand, for most (all?) Purifi, Hypex based amplifiers that Amir tests, load dependency is a non-existent problem. They are in a different power and price range should be added.Given what Purifi, Hypex based amplifiers perform, I see class AB constructions as redundant.But TI TPA 32XX based amps on the other hand, so far I'm skeptical of many of them.

 

[Svend P]

Non-straight FR, load dependent, non-existent PFFB implementation exist for some (most of them?) TI TPA 32XX chip based amplifiers that Amir tests.

All that is left is for you to prove a link between these minor imperfections and a "robust" sound or even just a difference in sound.

 

[DanielT]

All that is left is for you to prove a link between these minor imperfections and a "robust" sound or even just a difference in sound.

But if I were to do a blind test with my speakers with a load dependent class D amplifier vs a non load dependent amplifier what would the result say? Or rather it would just say that with my speakers I would either be able to hear or not hear a difference. With some other speakers I might get a different result.

Why take a chance on whether an amplifier possibly creates an audible coloring of the sound?

Let's say such a big difference that is shown in the link below, I dare to guess that I and also you would hear:

Page 1, #8:

"There's definitely an issue with the amps I've used, proof is in the data.

Orange audiosource, green aiyima a07"

Cheap amp without load dependency.

Hey there guys. Some might know I've been dealing with a load dependency issue with some cheaper amplifiers I use and my speakers (Cnotes) that results in an excessively bright speaker. I tried borrowed some cheap-ish class a/b amplifiers to test and the issue went away with those. I was...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[Svend P]

Why take a chance on whether an amplifier possibly creates an audible coloring of the sound?

So no correlation as expected. I find it particular dishonest to hide behind a scientific explanation, when there isn't a connection between that and the sound

 

[DanielT]

So no correlation as expected. I find it particular dishonest to hide behind a scientific explanation, when there isn't a connection between that and the sound

Well, if you look at the graph in my #133 above. A 2 dB difference around 3.7 kHz is quite a lot.

Where is the dishonesty in pointing out that it might be possible to hear differences in such a case?

 

[Svend P]

Where is the dishonesty in pointing out that it might be possible to hear differences in such a case?

All of the Aiyima A07 that Amirn has measured, has around +/- 1.5 dB at 20 kHz. No one can hear that.

 

[DanielT]

All of the Aiyima A07 that Amirn has measured, has around +/- 1.5 dB at 20 kHz. No one can hear that.

View attachment 389674

Sure, but there is nothing stated in that graph, as far as I can see, which dummy load Amir used. That's the point, FR changes depending on the load. So what if the speaker exhibits this:

NTK:

The impedance magnitude of his speaker is 15 - 36 ohms from ~6 to 17 kHz...


You can see for yourself in the thread what it resulted in for the OP. It's not just me who points out that it can be audible. Check for yourself and you'll see:

Cheap amp without load dependency.

Hey there guys. Some might know I've been dealing with a load dependency issue with some cheaper amplifiers I use and my speakers (Cnotes) that results in an excessively bright speaker. I tried borrowed some cheap-ish class a/b amplifiers to test and the issue went away with those. I was...

audiosciencereview.com

Or here, a 1.5 dB increase from 6 kHz to 13 kHz with the Aiyima A07:

Comparison of power amplifier distortions and FR into complex speaker dummy load

Comparison of AIYIMA A07 with DIY class AB amplifier into complex speaker dummy load (and more amps added soon) This is a measurement comparison of AIYIMA A07 amplifier (powered by SMPS Mean Well RS-100-24 27V)...

audiosciencereview.com

Audible or not?

 

[trevor_bartram]

Experience does not confirm this assertion. Many of our membership have NAD gear >10 years old and it's still running fine.

Heat, voltage, surge-current then lack of use are aluminum capacitor killers, in that order. There are replacement capacitor kits online with pictures of leaking caps for this model.
My C-340 is 22 years old, left on 24/7 & doesn't get hot (unless I blast music). I was considering a C-316BEE V2 as a backup (I do like the way it sounds in comparison with other amplifiers at Eproject on YT) but now I'm not so sure?

 

[trevor_bartram]

For someone wanting pre out/main in on this integrated, it'd be a very easy modification:

View attachment 386397

You need to check schematics to ensure the OUT circuit is capable of driving cable capacitive load & ensure the IN circuit doesn't require a coupling cap to prevent speaker out DC bias?

 

[trevor_bartram]

I believe it has been for sale for the last 6 years or so, longer for the predecessor. NAD are still selling this so perhaps it is not as unreliable as you think?

Good review here;

https://www.ecoustics.com/reviews/nad-c-316bee-v2-integrated-amplifier/

This reviewer and Zero Fidelity on YT mentioned the prominent midrange that I find sonically attractive. I'm running Q-Acoustics 3050, the grandfather of the 3050i & 5040 that are both considerably brighter. The 3050 is also an easy load so unlikely to use the dynamic power capabilities of the C-316BEE.
Does anyone know how NAD or BEE achieved a prominent midrange in an essentially 'flat' amplifier? Does it have anything to do with current feedback power amplifers?
If you check the C-316BEE schematics you'll notice the lack of input differential pair transistors common to conventional voltage feedback amplifiers.