NAD M10 Streaming Amplifier Lab Report...

[Krunok]

The NAD is yet another product that falls significantly short on its optimistic specifications.

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It's worth about AU$599 on a good day.

But it costs, wait for it, AU$3999. That's absolutely hilarious. The Master's Series was never terribly good value, right from the very first ones back in 2002 or so. I see things haven't changed one bit.

I wonder how rated power consumption of 241W relates to 300W IHF dynamic power at 4 Ohms.

 

[Dj7675]

Just as a comparison to the NAD T758 v3 receiver. Am I reading it correctly that their T758 has better specs than the M10? Also looks like you get more power (110w into 8ohn) with 2 channels and additional amps to drive zone 2. Not as compact and not built in screen. Although when you play music with roon it displays artwork on your TV.

 

[pastorbarrett]

I'm VERY enamoured by the form and function of this product. Having passives, it's pretty much a Swiss army knife in respect of usability (Room correction, streamer, suitably powerful amp). Though for that much outlay, the warranty period seems less than attractive over this side of the pond, at least...

A rather more poorer man's version with similar usability is the Yamaha R-N803D, though I'd wager there's perhaps some gulf between Yamaha's YPAO and DIRAC.

 

[BillG]

I'm VERY enamoured by the form and function of this product. Having passives, it's pretty much a Swiss army knife in respect of usability (Room correction, streamer, suitably powerful amp).

I quite like it as well - it's the epitome of forward looking audio technology to me - so much so that I'm currently negotiating with a dealer-friend of mine down here in Aotearoa for a good discount on one...

 

[KenM10759]

Just as a comparison to the NAD T758 v3 receiver. Am I reading it correctly that their T758 has better specs than the M10? Also looks like you get more power (110w into 8ohn) with 2 channels and additional amps to drive zone 2. Not as compact and not built in screen. Although when you play music with roon it displays artwork on your TV.

I have both a T758v3 and an M10. The M10 is in my office powering my KEF LS50's (and mating KEF Kube 10b sub), while the T758v3 is in the living room powering the KEF R500/R200c/R100/R50 and SVS SB2000 in a 5.1.2 setup. When I do use the living room setup, it's still primarily 2.1 music.

The M10 is to my ears much better for the LS50's because I like the ESS Sabre32 DAC better than the Burr-Brown in the T758. I honestly cannot hear much difference in power ratings, the R500's a just a little bit more efficient than the LS50's so go louder with the same power, theoretically. I never actually test either.

Don't discount the value of the M10's features in the right application. For my office use, I'm typically using the desktop BluOS app, but there are times I just reach over and use the M10's front panel. One cool thing is that I have my turntable in the office and its phono amp into the M10. Because the M10 is digitizing the signal before amplifying it, I can use BluOS to send that signal to either or both of the other two Bluesound players I have in two other rooms. Pretty cool. I have myriad other reasons to love the system I have here at home now, BluOS being a big part of it all.

 

[Cortes]

The NAD is yet another product that falls significantly short on its optimistic specifications.

View attachment 30846

View attachment 30847

It's worth about AU$599 on a good day.

But it costs, wait for it, AU$3999. That's absolutely hilarious. The Master's Series was never terribly good value, right from the very first ones back in 2002 or so. I see things haven't changed one bit.

@John, please, what's your opinon of the M32?

https://nadelectronics.com/product/m32-directdigital-amplifier/

measurements here:
https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...er&catid=97:amplifier-measurements&Itemid=154


I'm sort of seduced by its by-amping (or bi-wiring) capability with two sets of speakers outs with its own DSP.

Specially, because I'm considering different alternatives for coaxial speakers, and maybe a passive KEF R3 + by-amping can be an alternative to the Genelec 8331. I know the Gennies are better, but resale will be more complicated in the future.

 

[restorer-john]

@John, please, what's your opinon of the M32?

I haven't seen one or had one to play with, so take my comments with a grain of salt.

Based on the measurements you linked above, it appears to be another device where noise limits the ultimate performance, especially at low levels where 99% of listening is carried out.

The phono stage certainly does not appear to be anything to write home about, with its dearth of specifications and a rather poor overload, although NAD likes to say "a huge overload margin". Consider phono stages with >400mV overload were common sometime way back in the 70s...

 

[Cortes]

I haven't seen one or had one to play with, so take my comments with a grain of salt.

Based on the measurements you linked above, it appears to be another device where noise limits the ultimate performance, especially at low levels where 99% of listening is carried out.

The phono stage certainly does not appear to be anything to write home about, with its dearth of specifications and a rather poor overload, although NAD likes to say "a huge overload margin". Consider phono stages with >400mV overload were common sometime way back in the 70s...

Thanks John, as usual learning from you.

By noise at low levels, do you mean Chart #2?

 

[pjug]

To me, the thing that stands out in the Soundstage measurements of the M32 is the frequency response that changes so much as load varies. You see this with other DDFA amplifiers too. For example, look at the Stereophile measurements of the NAD M2. But at least the M2 has a load selection switch so that it compensates for this to some degree. I don't know if the M32 has this feature, and anyway who knows how well this works with real speakers where impedance varies with freq?

 

[Julf]

To me, the thing that stands out in the Soundstage measurements of the M32 is the frequency response that changes so much as load varies. You see this with other DDFA amplifiers too.

That is usually because the output choke isn't part of the feedback loop.

 

[pjug]

That is usually because the output choke isn't part of the feedback loop.

FWIW, NAD says they take feedback from the output filter with their DDFA amplifiers. It just does not seem to work as well as other designs, such as nCore and Purifi. Maybe that is why they give it a dotted line!

http://www.goodwinshighend.com/manufacturers/nad/M2-white-paper-EU-Web.pdf

The system operates by comparing the output PWM signal with a high purity ‘Reference PWM’ signal to create an error signal, which is representative of the voltage error at the output. Integration in time provides an indication of the pulse area error, which is digitized at a conversion rate of 108MHz to pass back to the digital domain. The error information is then processed to compensate subsequent modulation cycles. The system can be considered to be constantly adapting to minimize the errors and hence deliver as true a signal as possible to the speaker. The output signal is also monitored at the output of the LC filter

 

[Julf]

FWIW, NAD says they take feedback from the output filter with their DDFA amplifiers. It just does not seem to work as well as other designs, such as nCore and Purifi. Maybe that is why they give it a dotted line!

Yes, the dotted line is pretty strange - clearly the main feedback is before the choke, and some magic trick then adds some post-choke feedback (without bypassing the choke).

 

[pjug]

I just noticed that there is a new thread for the M32 questions. I wish I had replied there with comments regarding DDFA. Since this thread is on the M10, I guess it should be made clear:
NAD M10 is nCore
NAD M32 is DDFA

 

[BillG]

NAD M10 is nCore

Indeed it does use a Hypex nCore module for amplification, something which gives me a good deal of confidence in the unit. I got to demo one recently via a local dealer, and was impressed with its features and usability (I found it so easy to use that a manual wasn't necessary - granted, I'm a software engineer and data scientist) and subjectively, it sounded fantastic...

 

[REK2575]

I bought a NAD M10 from Crutchfield a few months ago and sent it back after a week.

I think it is *very* expensive for what it delivers. The deal-killer for me was the discovery that you cannot use the M10 with wired (non-Bluetooth) headphones. I assumed you could use the M10's PreOuts to a headphone amp. I was wrong. Or rather, you can use the PreOuts to a headphone amp, provided you disconnect your speakers, which is in no way a viable work-around. NAD confirmed in an email to me that they have no plans to correct this issue.

I returned the M10 and bought a Bluesound Node 2i (also engineered by NAD, iirc) and Yamaha integrated amp for a fraction of the price. Works great.

Unless you really need tech like Dirac room correction, I'd say steer clear of the M10. It is unquestionably a beautifully designed and high-quality construction piece of kit, which sounds marvelous. But there are much cheaper ways to get hi-res streaming, like via the Node 2i...

 

[BillG]

I'd say steer clear of the M10.

It's our money, and we're good with spending it as we please...

 

[REK2575]

It's our money, and we're good with spending it as we please...

Yes, and I never suggested anyone do otherwise.

 

[maty]

[PDF] https://cdn.webshopapp.com/shops/87564/files/284207109/hfc-451-indepth-nad-reprint-low.pdf

[Polish] https://audio.com.pl/testy/stereo/systemy-all-in-one/3106-nad-m10

to English:

* https://www.translatetheweb.com/?re...testy/stereo/systemy-all-in-one/3106-nad-m10#

* https://translate.google.es/transla.../testy/stereo/systemy-all-in-one/3106-nad-m10

and...

 

[pastorbarrett]

What's likely going on here with the relatively poor noise/ distortion for a Hypex implementation? Is it the amps other combined features, like display?

 

[Vindermere]

What hypex module it use ?