Let's be a little nicer, especially to newcomers

[Travis]

s. It only makes it tougher, and even worse, makes the hobby far less attractive than when I first started. I don't know how. Fine. Doesn't give you free rein to berate me and tell me I don't know what I'm doing because I'm new.

If that has been the case, no doubt you got replies because I have seen it from time to time. Seems to me that was exactly the thing that prompted @amirm to post this thread in the first place.

My two cents, people that post things like “I can’t believe you don’t know that” or something similar probably don’t have a real understanding of what you are asking anyway. Their participation here isn’t to learn, or spread knowledge, it’s to hear themselves talk and/or show everyone smart (they think) they are. There are exceptions of course, but generally I think that’s true.

You would never see an Audio Luminary, Expert, or other person with one of the designations respond that way in here. Sorry you have had to deal with that.

Even more sorry if we are moving away from the spirit in which the original post of this thread was intended. My impression was we had turned a corner, for the better, when this thread was started.

 

[Travis]

That’s not what I said nor what I intended to communicate. But good communications has to have equal effort from both parties. There have been few instances where a new member got upset by how he was being treated. We jumped in to mediate the situation and after a thorough review there was no offense or insults. He just didn’t like being told that he had his facts wrong and his opinion about what he heard was not scientific evidence. This happened multiple times and I was trying to clarify that for some new members being told that they probably can’t hear the difference between two usb cables or upgraded power cables making a difference. Someone being told that a thing they believe to be true is not true and probably a scam to get the customer to spend exorbitant amounts of money on DACs and cables. This is not a case of being rude or insulting. But to a new member who doesn’t know better, they get defensive and the conversation doesn’t go the way they wanted. Being told you’re wrong can be embarrassing and taken as an insult.

Like I said, I don’t see what you see, or deal with. I just wasn’t understanding the first sentence or two, and I apologize for that.

As I posted on the first page of this thread, it’s all approach. You can do it through Socratic method, maybe win a convert, or shove in in their face that they are wrong, per science.

It’s all in the delivery. One takes more effort than the other to be sure, and you still could be dealing with a troll, but the was response to Amir’s concern that long time members were leaving because of some of the attitudes that were shown new members.

Again, sorry for the misinterpretation, and I appreciate what all of the moderators do here for little or no thanks.

 

[Travis]

True - Amir owns, funds and runs the site. He can set the rules, direction and scope. He can invite or exclude anyone he wishes.

But the site is nothing without the membership. As such - we - all have a shared stake in it.

The problem is, despite the rumours to the contrary - we - are not a Borg Collective. We - deciding to do anything will never include everyone. All we can do is encourage welcoming behaviour, and make it less comfortable for those who are dicks.

If I could frame this I would. Well said, just doesn’t do it enough Justice.

 

[Fahzz]

I'll say. Does anyone realize how much it costs to maintain an Evil Villain Volcanic Island Lair?

View attachment 330498

What with all the minions, henchman, and assassins. That's a big nut to crack every month.

I thought it was one Miiillion dollars, no???

 

[MaxwellsEq]

There are deliberate trolls. There are also people who have spent thousands on mains cables or wooden boxes of soil with a single terminal screwed to the wood. They heard a difference which is why the spent the money. Then a Google search lands them here.

If what most contributors to ASR say is true, this poor person has been duped. They could have spent the money on a vacation or new washing machine. It's incredibly tough to accept this and admit it, so the person has to prove that ASR is doing it wrong.

Personally, I try to keep a vision of this poor, duped individual when I read discussions about expensive cables or measurably bad devices which are hideously expensive.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

There are deliberate trolls. There are also people who have spent thousands on mains cables or wooden boxes of soil with a single terminal screwed to the wood. They heard a difference which is why the spent the money. Then a Google search lands them here.

If what most contributors to ASR say is true, this poor person has been duped. They could have spent the money on a vacation or new washing machine. It's incredibly tough to accept this and admit it, so the person has to prove that ASR is doing it wrong.

Personally, I try to keep a vision of this poor, duped individual when I read discussions about expensive cables or measurably bad devices which are hideously expensive.

I don't think it's right to feel bad for them. Hopefully most grown ups don't buy hand-filed cable risers made of unicorn horn without having some serious excess of money. It's more "righteous" to go prove that the snake oil products don't do anything magic as the tricksters try to convince us of. That's why this place is important, I think.

Lay forth the evidence as objective and accessible as possible for the fooled ones. Some get convinced, some don't. But I imagine that even if someone takes up the evidence as wrong and continue arguing the silver cable bring out more detail, that the seed of doubt is planted and he will be more critical in his next purchase. There's some pride involved here that isn't so straight forward.

 

[Mart68]

I take issue with a lot of Sci-Fi like that. Much of it is poorly thought out. Every planet visited by humans has a breathable atmosphere and 1G gravity.

And looks a lot like southern California.

 

[Mart68]

There are deliberate trolls. There are also people who have spent thousands on mains cables or wooden boxes of soil with a single terminal screwed to the wood. They heard a difference which is why the spent the money. Then a Google search lands them here.

If what most contributors to ASR say is true, this poor person has been duped. They could have spent the money on a vacation or new washing machine. It's incredibly tough to accept this and admit it, so the person has to prove that ASR is doing it wrong.

Personally, I try to keep a vision of this poor, duped individual when I read discussions about expensive cables or measurably bad devices which are hideously expensive.

I don't think they are trolling, as in just posting as a deliberate wind up.

They read here and you have extensive suites of measurements showing the products do nothing. Blind test evidence they do nothing. And people with relevant PhD and a lifetime working in the relevant fields saying they do nothing.

This creates cognitive dissonance and there are only two ways to deal with that - either stop and think 'Maybe these people are right and I'm wrong' - or go on the offensive.

Certain personality types will always go on the offensive.

 

[DonR]

Well, I tried.

 

[NathanR]

My thoughts on the topic.

1) Enforce real full names.
It has worked very well on the ProSoundWeb Forums.

2) Enforce asking good questions:

How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

We should give every new member a 101 on asking questions

My thoughts generally:
I enjoy that ASR leans towards being 'heavy handed.' I got sick of nearly all other forums being too 'nice' at the expense of truth.

Edit:
I do feel sometimes I see 'preaching' instead of 'informing'
and/or
Stating adamantly something that is actually more complicated example.

I do agree that representing complex subjects is hard.
Postel’s Law is useful.
Speak the truth. even if it hurts.
Be kind when possible [respectful/professional].

"In the end, accuracy and kindness are the same thing." - Ray Dalio

 

[JSmith]

Enforce real full names

Ah, no.

Well, I tried.

T'was a valiant effort... but poster was nothing but a troll unfortunately.


JSmith

 

[TheBatsEar]

1) Enforce real full names.
It has worked very well on the ProSoundWeb Forums.

I was discussing this with a friend recently.
We decided it's better to be anonymous, you can try out your controversial opinion, even if it goes against the grain, without damaging your real persona long term.
Some think it gives them protection and they can go against the social grain, obviously, but i feel the mods make a particularly good job keeping them in check.

 

[NathanR]

I was discussing this with a friend recently.
We decided it's better to be anonymous, you can try out your controversial opinion, even if it goes against the grain, without damaging your real persona long term.
Some think it gives them protection and they can go against the social grain, obviously, but i feel the mods make a particularly good job keeping them in check.

Sounds good. 'twas only an opinion. Substantiated.

As long as it was at least discussed here.

Personally speaking. I've found that using my real name everywhere allows me to live more authentically and I am forced to consider what I say before I say it. IMO that is what is lacking online. In-person conversations have protection mechanisms built-in, whereas online doesn't (as much).

That said, I can see how one might need some sort of anonymous mechanism for controversial opinions.
I think it is neat that technology can give us those tools (anonymous mode in profile, aka reddit).

That said, I think it is a moral & philosophical issue when you believe something, but can't say it because the 'mob' might attack you. I'd rather live in a world where we think the best of people regardless of the controversial opinion. But alas, not what we have right now. Maybe in another 1k-yrs.

 

[pseudoid]

And looks a lot like southern California.

I am truly clooless as to what you mean.
May you be able to explain this statement for those who are either hard of hearing or those who may consider themselves locals of SoCal?
10Q!

 

[DonR]

I am truly clooless as to what you mean.
May you be able to explain this statement for those who are either hard of hearing or those who may consider themselves locals of SoCal?
10Q!

Most Sci-Fi is or at least was made in and around the Hollywood hills. Star Trek?

 

[Mart68]

Most Sci-Fi is or at least was made in and around the Hollywood hills. Star Trek?

Exactly.

 

[pseudoid]

OIC!
I guess "Southern California" means something totally other, for those who do not reside here.

Most SoCal residents do NOT live in 'Hollywood' and/or Los Angeles County AND do not consider "them" neighbors.
Actually, the demographics are so vastly different in each of the 10 counties that encompass SoCal. I've recently read that it has one of the most diverse (social/economic/racial/etc.) populations across the country (per 2020 Census).
Think of non-LA County residents of SoCal as if they were merely lost-tourists arriving from England... if they are not there for business or just passing through.
For example, it would be an insult categorizing someone from OrangeCounty as if they were "one of those people, up there"!

 

[IPunchCholla]

OIC!
I guess "Southern California" means something totally other, for those who do not reside here.
View attachment 333171
Most SoCal residents do NOT live in 'Hollywood' and/or Los Angeles County AND do not consider "them" neighbors.
Actually, the demographics are so vastly different in each of the 10 counties that encompass SoCal. I've recently read that it has one of the most diverse (social/economic/racial/etc.) populations across the country (per 2020 Census).
Think of non-LA County residents of SoCal as if they were merely lost-tourists arriving from England... if they are not there for business or just passing through.
For example, it would be an insult categorizing someone from OrangeCounty as if they were "one of those people, up there"!

It’s not an anthropological phenomena. It’s geological and environmental. For cost reasons shows filmed in Hollywood often use locations that are nearby. So NCIS (the one in Maryland) is always going to places on the east coast that look like Southern California hill country, which is just weird. Same thing for many Sci-Fi movies. The landscape is pretty distinctive and is often used as if could represent anywhere.

Now of course, California has gotten expensive enough that they are filming scenes set in California, here in New Mexico, which, while arid, is very different biome and geology.

 

[pseudoid]

Now of course, California has gotten expensive enough that they are filming scenes set in California, here in New Mexico, which, while arid, is very different biome and geology.

Peach State?

 

[IPunchCholla]

Peach State?

NM? No we’re green chili. Pretty much all the California scenes in the last season of stranger things was filmed here. Netflix produces a ton of shows out here and condo prices a rent are soaring, since we’re so cheap relatively, that many folks in the business are buying work homes out here.