KEF LS50 Meta Review (Speaker)

[thewas]

Not falling for this. Stop perpetuating. Thanks.

It seems you don't want to be reminded of your past claims, here just some of them from dozens of your posts and discussions you have with several members about this topic where you even compared it to cable voodoo:

Well -sue me but I can't hear any difference between the originals and the LS50 Metas.

Both are stellar speakers - and their in-room response {as well as pretty much every measurement) is damn-near-effing identical. If anything the original looks a tad more linear there. And yes, there are other aspects to consider. But let's be honest - anyone that claims to hear a clear difference...

Never disputed that. Question is how audible the improvements really are.

This is one Amir's reviews that makes zero sense to me. Stop being so religious about his *opinion*. Look at the measurements. If you think you can tell an audible difference, you may as well buy into esoteric power conditioning and cabling, really. :-D Claiming one can hear a difference between slight measurements differences (which can be explained by environmental factors or are small enough to be dismissed anyhow) is just as irrational as other esoteric audio claims.

The measurements of both versions are actually extremely close - to the point one has to objectively wonder if they are indeed discernable to the human ear.

Comparing the measurements, I doubt people can tell an audible difference, and the differences may be pure statistical variance.

I repeat that IMO people that claim to hear a <1% measurement difference are just as irrational as those who swear to hear differences between USB cables... they just have a better excuse...

The measurements show you're most likely *wanting* to hear a difference. They are *both* amazing speakers, in general terms and especially given their price. Despite KEF marketing literature, the measurements show they are basically the exact same speaker, with some "magic marketing dust" sprinkled on the newer model.

But measurement wise you have no evidence to make that claim, look at the superimposed graphs there. The two speakers are basically identical, definitely identical in overall character, and differences are within statistical variance - and will most absolutely never be hearable across a wide range of music, if.

Personally I find there is zero audible difference between the old LS50 and the new Meta version (and the minuscule measurement differences bear that out, see below the two graphs super-imposed).

 

[pablolie]

It seems you don't want to be reminded of your past claims, here just some of them from dozens of your posts and discussions you have with several members about this topic where you even compared it to cable voodoo:

I think you are embarrassing yourself at this stage with what amounts to obsessive behavior on this topic.

I won't bother to quote your inflated claims about differences, I'll just point out I state "personally" a lot and avoid any absolutes. Unlike you.

I stand by each one of those statements you quote obsessively, by the way. It's time to put you on my ignore list, unfortunately.

 

[thewas]

I think you are embarrassing yourself at this stage with what amounts to obsessive behavior on this topic.

I won't bother to quote your inflated claims about differences, I'll just point out I state "personally" a lot and avoid any absolutes. Unlike you.

I stand by each one of those statements you quote obsessively, by the way.

I rather let others decide who embarasses himself with his moving goalposts and obsessive behaviour posting in dozens of threads what everybody else sees differently.

 

[killdozzer]

Crutchfield is asking $1600/pair. Who is selling them less than $1000 here?

I'm not over there, unfortunately, otherwise I'd have a pair of your BMRs I'm in Croatia and there's a shop in my town "RotaryAudio" that sells them at a price I mentioned - 900€. I posted this in our (Europe) Master Deals Thread since I believe that even after paying shipping, you could still get them at a lower price than otherwise.

 

[killdozzer]

That exaggeration between 2-4khz could very well be what he's hearing.

But that's the original LS50 with the exaggeration.

 

[pablolie]

But that's the original LS50 with the exaggeration.

Does that mean the Meta is "missing" something by being under water in that exact region (more deviation from the "ideal line" than the original, in fact)? I didn't think so when listening to them.

 

[abdo123]

Does that mean the Meta is "missing" something by being under water in that exact region (more deviation from the "ideal line" than the original, in fact)? I didn't think so when listening to them.

The answer is more complicated than you think

 

[killdozzer]

Does that mean the Meta is "missing" something by being under water in that exact region (more deviation from the "ideal line" than the original, in fact)? I didn't think so when listening to them.

I was just asking did Matt hear "metalic" in the original.

If you ask me, it's not the same. It's always important to see where it deviates. It's about the audibility of different parts of frequency range. I think you notice minute changes in highs, but even if you'd add twice on the bottom octave, you'd probably barely notice.

I respect the fact that you openly state you haven't heard something. I, personally, have. Not so much in the highs, but in the fact that overall sound was cleaner when I go loud. In my case numbers only confirmed my impression (Meta distort slightly louder than original) and I was happy to see that. Later some members dialed in saying that this is one of the expected results and that it makes sense.

 

[killdozzer]

The answer is more complicated than you think

I like this guy for the most part. He allows for some minor BS admittedly, but overall he's OK.

 

[Tokyo_John]

I get just a good clean sound out of the Metas, seamless crossover between woofer and tweeter, excellent imaging, good directional behavior, etc.. The concentric tweeter and woofer and bulging front probably explain most of these good characteristics. These days I never listen to them without my DSP/Dirac room correction running, which probably filters out any peculiarities like "metallic" sounds and such.

I still recall the day I hooked them up for the first time, and played Gangnam Style as a test track...my wife, who is no audiophile, had her first ever "whoa!" moment. They blew away the Dali speakers I was previously using. It was great to finally get a reaction from her on the audio front.

I also recall the day I heard them in a shop for the first time, playing some female jazz vocals, and I could swear that the exhalation from her voice was coming out of the speaker itself...I even put my hand in front just to get a reality check.

 

[Newman]

Below are the super-imposed ASR measurements of both original (blue) and Meta LS50 (orange). Neither in my opinion has a "spike" in presence or brilliance range that signals "harshness". There are many speakers in ASR with measurements that may indeed indicate bothersome treble exaggeration, but the LS50 is pretty darn linear....

View attachment 317986

It's the difference in on-axis FR that is more obvious...

(Original LS50 in faded lines)​

...and on-axis FR is a primary factor in speaker preferences.

Amir described it as "a boost in mid frequencies". I wouldn't write off that amount of deviation from flat.

cheers

 

[Digital_Thor]

Hmm.. what if you just use a bit of EQ like mentioned in the beginning of this thread. But it on top of a matching 40-60 liter cabinet with two 6-8" woofers, that take over below 400Hz and then top it off with multiple subs. The distortion in the LS50 is more or less linear, so mostly correctable.
https://www.spinorama.org/speakers/KEF LS50 Meta/ASR/index_asr.html
Neither subs or woofer need to be expensive... I guess anything from SB, Dayton or the like would be just fine in some ready-made or DIY closed box.
Amplifiers and DSP are off the shelf and suddenly both personal sound preference and max SPL is more of a free choice.

 

[CK74]

Would speakers with 8" drivers need a High Pass filter?
I have Klipsch R-800F mains and a SVS SB-2000 Pro sub.
The sub is low passed at 80Hz through LFE, but my receiver does not have a high pass filer for the mains.
Should I get a high pass for the main speakers, and if so which one?

 

[pablolie]

...

Amir described it as "a boost in mid frequencies". I wouldn't write off that amount of deviation from flat.

In his conclusion, Amir didn't recommend the original LS50 because of lack of bass. Since the bass response is identical in both (as personally I think is pretty much anything else, they both have some deviating spikes and lows by 1-2dB here and there), the different conclusions never made any sense to me. Especially since he is about the only professional audio reviewer on the planet that wasn't impressed with the LS50. John Atkinson from Stereophile emphasized throughout his measurements how similar the two were, and clearly stated the differences he found were slight. The Stereophile original review declaring them reference (unheard of for their price point) "without low end extension" makes way more sense to me.

About the only reviewers that heard a clear difference were WhatHifi, and I am not sure anyone wants to ever quote what they say (and stay respected). :-D

I am going to unwatch this topic, it's a horse that has been flogged mercilessly way beyond death. :-D

 

[thewas]

Here is a direct binaural comparison where the measured difference in the presence region is easily audible:

 

[Digital_Thor]

Just bought a pair of second hand LS50 meta. Definitely a small desktop speaker, if you want bass of any sort. It didn't surprise me much. But when crossed at 300Hz on top of two 8" and with 4 subwoofers... it helps
Volume also needs to be cranked a bit more, since the low sensitivity of the LS50 require some juice.
Compared to anything I have DIY'd myself, they play very nicely, even complex "S" sounds and instruments that usually make my room ring like a bell, has been subdued quite a bit. Only had them for a couple of hours... and only one has ever been used, since the previous owner bought two sets, simply to have a matching center speaker for his home cinema.

 

[MEGB1262]

Hi there,
i did not went to all posts since the beginning, but in the diy scene there are a lot of mods of the little 5 inch KEF full range coax using it as low coupled mid high range chassis

 

[GXAlan]

https://www.abt.com/KEF-LS50-Meta-Royal-Blue-Bookshelf-Speakers-Pair-SP4027CA/p/174549.html

Black Friday deal is $1000 a pair in the USA; available now. ABT historically is a legit company.

 

[Jim - where is The Abyss]

I'd appreciate some comments regarding mating these with either a Denon or Marantz AVR. Supposedly, the Denon sound signature is a little dryer/more analytical compared to the warmer Marantz. Given the LS50s' relative flatness but lack of bass, would a top Denon push these over the edge towards shrillness?

 

[tw 2022]

I'd appreciate some comments regarding mating these with either a Denon or Marantz AVR. Supposedly, the Denon sound signature is a little dryer/more analytical compared to the warmer Marantz. Given the LS50s' relative flatness but lack of bass, would a top Denon push these over the edge towards shrillness?

Get a mini dsp...