KEF LS50 Meta Review (Speaker)

[ahofer]

Thanks for summing it up perfectly.
Audio discussions sometimes remind me of the joke about Leibniz and Democritus arguing about monads vs atoms. :-D

Aren't the bitterest battles fought over the smallest stakes? I think I just mangled Sayre's Law:

"In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake." By way of corollary, it adds: "That is why academic politics are so bitter."

 

[pablolie]

Aren't the bitterest battles fought over the smallest stakes? I think I just mangled Sayre's Law:

That is a brilliant reply and I am your fan henceforth.

 

[tw 2022]

That is a brilliant reply and I am your fan henceforth.

X2... Brilliant anecdotal story....

 

[killdozzer]

Digital glare now metallic haze.
Honestly, I read enough of that tosh on every other audio forum, please not here.
Keith

It's not about what's true or what are the facts, but how metal makes you feeeel!

I'm with you on this. It's just too much. In my room I had some harshness in the upper freq band and I really did remedy it with toe-out. I made tweeters miss my ears just slightly. Straight line would have them meet 1-2 feet behind my head and the sound was excellent. And I really don't like harshness so one of the biggest deals when choosing a speaker is to be able to enjoy loud highs.

 

[Purité Audio]

I particularly remember when we first had the kiis, took them to a chaps house set them up next to his existing system.
Everything aspect of SQ was better about the Kiis bass extension, clarity, imaging adjustability, the guy admitted as much but thought that woodwinds sounded more ‘woody’ through his old system, in fact everything had that ‘woody’ bark ( you can use that Matt) he had just grown used to the sound .
The other day I was told that a customers turntable sounded too ‘digital’ through some contemporary designs.
If listeners have spent time and money ‘optimising’ their system they do tend to believe that their sound is correct, even when it isn’t.
Keith

 

[killdozzer]

Well, what can I say...

In the spirit of the times, can we have microtrolling like we have microagressions?

Back on topic; I have people over, I play a list of songs showcasing different aspects of LS50 Meta and people leave wanting them. I have to write KEF. Now, I know there are better boxes out there, but for a small bookshelf speaker you can now get new for 900€ (is what I got mine for - it's 953 dollars US for the Meta) it's a highly respectable product and remains so from the first iteration which was no less than 11 years ago. It's Hall Of Fame bookshelf and I'm going to get off this thread and blast mine a bit before afternoon rest rules kick in!

 

[MattHooper]

If listeners have spent time and money ‘optimising’ their system they do tend to believe that their sound is correct, even when it isn’t.

Or another, less dogmatic way of looking at it (e.g. not declaring for someone else what is "correct"):

A listener may spend time and money optimizing his system to meet his preferences.

What is "correct" for you is neither here nor there, in that regard.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Well, what can I say...

In the spirit of the times, can we have microtrolling like we have microagressions?

Back on topic; I have people over, I play a list of songs showcasing different aspects of LS50 Meta and people leave wanting them. I have to write KEF. Now, I know there are better boxes out there, but for a small bookshelf speaker you can now get new for 900€ (is what I got mine for - it's 953 dollars US for the Meta) it's a highly respectable product and remains so from the first iteration which was no less than 11 years ago. It's Hall Of Fame bookshelf and I'm going to get off this thread and blast mine a bit before afternoon rest rules kick in!

Crutchfield is asking $1600/pair. Who is selling them less than $1000 here?

 

[MattHooper]

It's not about what's true or what are the facts, but how metal makes you feeeel!

Well, sound makes you feel something...I hope The end result is always the subjective impression, I assume you agree.

I'm with you on this. It's just too much. In my room I had some harshness in the upper freq band and I really did remedy it with toe-out.

"Harshness" itself is not in the measurements. You may be able to identify in measurements what causes the "harsh" sound for you, but calling it "harsh" is a subjective assessment, a description of "how it sounds to me." Same as for instance if someone uses the description "a slightly metallic impression" for how a speaker's characteristic comes across to them, subjectively. As pointed out earlier, there is enough deviation from neutral in Amir's measurements of the original LS50 to impart some audible sound character, so it may leave certain sonic impressions in some, maybe not others. Someone may have disagreed with your assessment that the LS50's (before you adjusted them) sounded 'harsh.' That doesn't mean you weren't hearing something real about the speaker, and that it didn't leave that sonic impression on you.

I also agree the LS50 is a terrific speaker. Not perfect for sure, but did enough to be something of a game changer.

And I really don't like harshness so one of the biggest deals when choosing a speaker is to be able to enjoy loud highs.

I'm totally with you on that!

Listening to my friend's LS50s, I can hear a bit of upper frequency emphasis, but it doesn't come across as harsh in his system/house; I still find the sound quite smooth.

I am extra sensitive to harshness and brightness in speakers. And yet I don't want a rolled off "dead" sound. So I'm always looking for a presentation that sounds lively and open in the upper frequencies, yet smooth and easy to listen to. That's what I have with my system. When I listen to other audiophile systems I can have trouble turning up the sound, but on mine I can crank it much louder with comfort.

 

[pablolie]

Below are the super-imposed ASR measurements of both original (blue) and Meta LS50 (orange). Neither in my opinion has a "spike" in presence or brilliance range that signals "harshness". There are many speakers in ASR with measurements that may indeed indicate bothersome treble exaggeration, but the LS50 is pretty darn linear. So it'll present what the amp gives it quite accurately. So maybe, just maybe, if you hear harshness it comes from the devices that feed it, or the recording?

I also think the LS50 sounds even more impressive when not trying to play the stuff below 80Hz, and matched with a well set-up sub (or two) it comes darn close to being a giant killer and extremely adaptable to any environment.

 

[digitalfrost]

Below are the super-imposed ASR measurements of both original (blue) and Meta LS50 (orange). Neither in my opinion has a "spike" in presence or brilliance range that signals "harshness". There are many speakers in ASR with measurements that may indeed indicate bothersome treble exaggeration, but the LS50 is pretty darn linear.

That exaggeration between 2-4khz could very well be what he's hearing.

 

[Ron Texas]

That exaggeration between 2-4khz could very well be what he's hearing.

It's definitely what he is hearing.

 

[pablolie]

That exaggeration between 2-4khz could very well be what he's hearing.

Not disputing it, but at 2dB or so it is really quite subtle and probably hearing threshold stuff? And that's the original, the Meta is more subdued in that region. I have to admit, I listened to both and the character to me was identical, and they sounded pretty much the same to me, albeit with a slight difference I can't describe as better or worse in either case. I have $15k towers in storage, and I prefer these.

 

[digitalfrost]

Dial in any EQ at 3khz, Q=1.41 or Q=2 and tell me you don't hear it. The ear is most sensitive right in this region.

 

[thewas]

Dial in any EQ at 3khz, Q=1.41 or Q=2 and tell me you don't hear it. The ear is most sensitive right in this region.

He keeps ignoring such advice which was given several times to him in the past, for example here.

 

[pablolie]

He keeps ignoring such advice which was given several times to him in the past, for example here.

It is pretty useless "advice" when one repeatedly states he is happy with what he has. But thanks for trying to enlighten by blind eyes. Geez you take long rides on the grudge bus...

 

[thewas]

It is pretty useless "advice" when one repeatedly states he is happy with what he has. But thanks for trying to enlighten by blind eyes. Geez you take long rides on the grudge bus...

Nobody said you shouldn't be happy with them, our above statements were about something very different, namely the audibility of the different voicing/responses. By the way you are the one you keep bringing your doubts all over again in these threads, we are just responding to that.

 

[pablolie]

.. your doubts ...

No doubts here, either written or in my head. I know what I like. Keep arguing away. In many topics I have great respect for your contributions, but not in this case. Have a great day.

I don't want to bore the forum ad infinitum - I simply continue to be convinced that a 1-2dB difference over a limited frequency range, presence region or not, does not make a huge difference. Hearable? Quite possibly, if you say so. But creating a completely different sonic character? Nope.

 

[thewas]

No doubts here, either written or in my head. I know what I like. Keep arguing away. In many topics I have great respect for your contributions, but not in this case. Have a great day.

Again no one doubted what you like, only your claim their tonal difference is inaudible.

I don't want to bore the forum ad infinitum - I simply continue to be convinced that a 1-2dB difference over a limited frequency range, presence region or not, does not make a huge difference. Hearable? Quite possibly, if you say so. But creating a completely different sonic character? Nope.

Great example of moving goalpost, the discussion was never about completely different sonic character but your past claims that they sound the same.

 

[pablolie]

Again no one doubted what you like, only your claim their tonal difference is inaudible.

Not falling for this. Stop perpetuating. Thanks.