That looks like a great resource to learn from, I read through it & also bookmarked it, on that page they don't talk about the exact same config as that being reviewed here though: 3 woofers on the bottom & tweeter on top.
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JBL HDI-3600 Speaker Review
- Thread starter amirm
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Don't forget to visit the main page, then click to his blog too! John Zaph Krutke is a legend!
thefsb
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The "dust" problem is even worse with guitars.Are you aware that Dave's Strat is also in piano black?
thefsb
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What's to prevent placing the tweeter lower in the array of drivers? It's below the mid-range driver in the Ascend tower.
Depends on how the driver chambers in the cabinet are designed.
Promit
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I think I have eight or nine guitars here and only one is gloss. All of the others are satin finish front and back. Better to keep clean and better to play.
Typically this sort of layout uses one of the larger units for bass and mid and the other two for just bass, so the top one will cross over to the tweeter at 2kHz and the bottom two join in at 900 Hz.
This is the way these types have been for decades.
Thanks yeah, I'm new to the audio scene, so have knowledge gaps, some previous posters cleared it up for me already though along with graphs, gotta love graphs!
If we compare the JBL with the Buchardt (only) in terms of possible problematic frequency ranges, the Buchardt performs better than the JBL.
I am surprised how well the score highlights this difference.
It also makes clear what the Buchardt gets in return for the high harmonic distortion, low bass that puts a full-fledged floorstander in its place (only in terms of low frequency response).
The badly made transition from compression driver to waveguide at 10kHz is in this price region unusual. Most of the time, a slump in frequency response cannot be completely prevented, but often it is possible to shift it to higher frequencies (e.g. by using a smaller throat diameter, special transition area between compression driver and waveguide to avoid interference, ...).
Since the ER curve also shows this dip, it should actually be perceptible.
Buchardt
SCORE: 5.5
SCORE w/ sub: 7.6
JBL
SCORE: 4.9
SCORE w/sub: 7.1
I am surprised how well the score highlights this difference.
It also makes clear what the Buchardt gets in return for the high harmonic distortion, low bass that puts a full-fledged floorstander in its place (only in terms of low frequency response).
The badly made transition from compression driver to waveguide at 10kHz is in this price region unusual. Most of the time, a slump in frequency response cannot be completely prevented, but often it is possible to shift it to higher frequencies (e.g. by using a smaller throat diameter, special transition area between compression driver and waveguide to avoid interference, ...).
Since the ER curve also shows this dip, it should actually be perceptible.
Buchardt
SCORE: 5.5
SCORE w/ sub: 7.6
JBL
SCORE: 4.9
SCORE w/sub: 7.1
According to the @MZKM breakdown it's due to their NBD_ON and NBD_PIR scores. You can use the early preview of Olive score calculation in Loudspeaker Explorer to get more insight on that:
It's clearly the 10k dip that's killing the JBL as far as the score is concerned.
Since the dip continues relatively unchanged off-axis and directivity is smooth through that region, one may find success EQing that out.
tuga
Major Contributor
The JBL's PIR performance is worse in every band except grey and blue (2.2-4.3kHz).
P.S.: and green
Interesting how so far the two towers measure worse than their bookshelf counterparts.
@edechamps This is awesome - it really puts the NBD scores in perspective. I do wonder how much little squiggles in the NBD are actually audible though, especially below 1000Hz where the room has increasing influence. It's the type of thing that affects the score calculation but I have difficulty imagining it to have a significant audible effect.
It's worth noting how the HDI is quite smooth in the upper mids and presence region instead. The 10K dip is likely to be audible for most listeners, but whether it's significantly detrimental is something else.
@edechamps This is awesome - it really puts the NBD scores in perspective. I do wonder how much little squiggles in the NBD are actually audible though, especially below 1000Hz where the room has increasing influence. It's the type of thing that affects the score calculation but I have difficulty imagining it to have a significant audible effect.
It's worth noting how the HDI is quite smooth in the upper mids and presence region instead. The 10K dip is likely to be audible for most listeners, but whether it's significantly detrimental is something else.
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OP
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I am getting a deep null at 38 Hz which I mitigated but could not remove with software tweaks. So likely there is more energy there than I am showing. Then again, no anechoic chamber is reflection free down that low so their data has error in it as well.
@pierre has done this.I'd be interested in the preference score for the M2. @MZKM ?
https://pierreaubert.github.io/spinorama/
Take note it’s not using Amir’s data, so accuracy is not guaranteed.
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A chamber can be calibrated to correct for the low frequency response errors; however, this can be difficult for some types of driver and port / passive radiator layouts. If you had a deep null at 38 Hz that's pretty close to the port tuning. This indicates that you're probably not capturing the output of the rear ports. I do nearfield tests for bass extension and it yields better results than you're getting from the Klippel machine. Don (DB) Keele is a friend of mine and he did the research for nearfield testing which doesn't have the limitations of an anechoic chamber. The signal-to-noise ratio using Don's method is very high.
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OP
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The correction is approximate. Since the behavior is modal and hence location dependent, there is no one correction that works, especially when we are dealing with current situation of ports, drivers and microphone being in different locations. Here is an actual comparison:
Blue is in-room. Red is anechoic with calibration. Black is Klippel NFS. As we see, the red line/anechoic becomes wrong below about 30 Hz.
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Please see my edited post concerning your 38hz issue. Here you're basically dealing with the size limitation of a chamber. The in-room curve also shows how the noise floor becomes a problem. I always get a good laugh when I see a post with a REW graph and the owner claiming his subwoofer is flat to 8hz.
Performance is as expected for a speaker of this format. Waveguide helps but can't meld with the big woofer array. Output should be a strong point.
I can help but notice that JBL is really lacking in the design department. The Revels aren't particularly stylish although they look like a premium product, but these? Compared to the focals and b&ws at this price point, these look quite plan and cheap.
I can help but notice that JBL is really lacking in the design department. The Revels aren't particularly stylish although they look like a premium product, but these? Compared to the focals and b&ws at this price point, these look quite plan and cheap.
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