Help for speakers decision: JBL 100 or JBL HDI 1600 + 2 x subwoofers

[Amateur2020]

Hello,

I have the following set:

• Dali Zensor 5
• 2 x subwoofers MIVOC hype 10g2
• Amplifier + room eq lyngdorf TDAI-1120 (as a result of ASR review)
• There is no chance for room acoustic treatment
• There is no chance for another room disposition

Lyngdorf roomperfect I think makes a very good job, the thing is I would like more dynamic or punch sound.

I read very good reports about JBL HDI 1600 (ASR) and JBL L100.

I ask your very good advise about, according to my situation, room, amplifier, … what would be the best choice to improve:

1. JBL L100
2. JBL HDI 1600 + 2 x SVS subwoofers
3. DALI Oberon 3 + 2 x SVS subwoofers
4. Any suggestion in a budget of 4K €

Maybe there is no real big improvement but as my last shot I would like to do the best.

I do not have possibilities of previous listenings.

Thank you,

Edit: maybe this image is more descriptive

 

[norman bates]

i see it as rumble vs midbass................. (dual subwoofers vs 3-way)
subs can seem "slow" if not integrated correctly, you may need to be sitting on them versus them up front with the speakers....

up to you.

In a non critical, set up similar to yours (nothing like how I am setup), unknown minimal instrument jazz music, $15k of electronics in front of it, I liked the L100.
But that peak at 2khz probably will get annoying, Adelle would definitely be a bit nasaly.........
The raised 4.5khz-6khz, not sure how that influences what you will hear.

JBL L100 Classic Loudspeaker Lab Report

Lab Report It isn't often these days that we encounter a speaker which is distinctly conservative in its sensitivity specification but the L100 Classic harks back to earlier times in more ways than one. JBL claims 90dB at 1m for 2.83V input, but we measured an even stronger 91.6dB on pink noise...

www.hifinews.com

I'm not keen on averaged graphs...............

But I'd love to read other people's thoughts also............


Moderators, it might be better to put this over on the speaker forum...............

 

[Amateur2020]

Thanks for your answer Norman.
My doubt is which option gives me a richer sound, 1) 12" from "almost full range" JBL-L100 or 2) good critics JBL HDI 1600 + 2 x subwoofers in this room and with this electronics. JBL L100 reviews usually say good things about dynamic and good bass control, with the help of roomperfect EQ could be a winner solution but the second set with subwoofers maybe could reach more bass extension and sound better. This is my doubt, and I would like to take the right decision. DALI speakers sound very good to me but the good critics and reviews (ASR) make me think about it.
I don't know if this thread should be in speakers... I don't know how to change it..
The more I think about the speakers the more difficult is to decide...

 

[norman bates]

I disagree a lot here.
I prefer a big 2-way then a big 3-way before I'd go for a medium 2-way crossed to a sub.

But I come from a double 15 crossing at 750hz to a big horn.
Then a 12" 2-way.

I enjoy mid bass punch versus a subwoofer rumble, but I do enjoy rumble also.

To me punch takes some serious cone area for 80-200hz sitting back 10' away.

 

[Waxx]

The JBL 4329P was measured very good (a lot like it's bigger brothers) by Erin (not possible to link bere but google it) and is in your price range. That would be the best solution for your budget i think. The L100 is not that good, it's a historical artifact, that due to overhyping by the audiophile crowd is brought back. The HDI is good, but not as good as the 43xx series.

 

[Sal1950]

Hello,

I have the following set:

• Dali Zensor 5
• 2 x subwoofers MIVOC hype 10g2
• Amplifier + room eq lyngdorf TDAI-1120 (as a result of ASR review)
• There is no chance for room acoustic treatment
• There is no chance for another room disposition

View attachment 329047

Lyngdorf roomperfect I think makes a very good job, the thing is I would like more dynamic or punch sound.

I read very good reports about JBL HDI 1600 (ASR) and JBL L100.

I ask your very good advise about, according to my situation, room, amplifier, … what would be the best choice to improve:

1. JBL L100
2. JBL HDI 1600 + 2 x SVS subwoofers
3. DALI Oberon 3 + 2 x SVS subwoofers
4. Any suggestion in a budget of 4K €

Maybe there is no real big improvement but as my last shot I would like to do the best.

I do not have possibilities of previous listenings.

Thank you,

Edit: maybe this image is more descriptive

I considered the HDI 1600 long and hard but in the end decided to go with the 3600's for their better deep
bass extension and lower distortion. Required floor space is basically the same. I still added 2 SVS SB2000 subs
to lighten the deep deep bass load on the HDI's.
It's up to you.

 

[Amateur2020]

Thanks for your answers,

Norman
Somehow this is my doubt: in my room, 16 m2, which would fit better the JBL-100 with punchy 12" woofer or a more "logical" JBL HDI 1660 + 2 x subs?. This is the advice I need

Waxx,
I would like to keep my Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 as it makes a very good job. Passive speakers are mandatory then.

Sal
JBL 3600 + 2 x SVS is a solution for a room bigger than mine?, or not?

This is my question to L100 or to hdi 1600...

 

[Waxx]

Waxx,
I would like to keep my Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 as it makes a very good job. Passive speakers are mandatory then.

Not necesairy, it got line out, so you can keep it for it's preamp/streamer/dsp part, and just use the line out to connect to the JBL's, while keeping the volume knob and so active. The amp part is not that special as shown in the measurments done:

SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com - Lyngdorf Audio TDAI-1120 Integrated Amplifier-DAC

www.soundstagenetwork.com

And with the JBL 4329P, subs are not really needed for most, only for HT you may need it (but then you probally want surround what the Lyngdorf also doesn't offer. THe JBL is going down to 35Hz on relative high volumes.

 

[Amateur2020]

Hello Waxx,
I did not think about that, can be an option , thank you.

 

[Ron Texas]

JBL 708P
Revel F206
Neuman KH150
Wharfedale Linton 85th and spend the rest on some other hobby.

If you never have successfully set up subs before, it's really difficult. Having a MiniDSP 2x4HD or Flex helps a lot.
I have LS50's (original) with 2 Rythmik L12 subs. That's under $3k and the sound is stunning in a medium size room.

 

[Amateur2020]

Thank you Ron,
Active speakers are not my best option, Revel is not available in my country, Spain, and Linton could be a good option. The thing is that between Linton and JBL-L100 it seems JBL has more dynamic bass. The real decision is if JBL-L100, or Linton, are very big for my room or I should take a monitor + subs to fill the lower extension. Roomperfect EQ does a fantastic job with my actual set , but I want more bass and maybe 12" or 10" woofers are too much...

 

[norman bates]

We don't always know the answers.

Better is up to your ear and wallet.

 

[Ron Texas]

Thank you Ron,
Active speakers are not my best option, Revel is not available in my country, Spain, and Linton could be a good option. The thing is that between Linton and JBL-L100 it seems JBL has more dynamic bass. The real decision is if JBL-L100, or Linton, are very big for my room or I should take a monitor + subs to fill the lower extension. Roomperfect EQ does a fantastic job with my actual set , but I want more bass and maybe 12" or 10" woofers are too much...

Subs take up a lot of floor space. There are some towers in the JBL HDI series. Those might do the job without subs. Remember, a tower takes the same floor space as a stand mount. I'm not sure why you don't like active speakers. Maybe you can't buy Revel in Spain, but I have traveled there and Spain is a wonderful place. My niece is living there right now.

 

[Sal1950]

There are some towers in the JBL HDI series

My 3600s

 

[Amateur2020]

Hello again, thank you for your answers,

Norman
Better is up to your ear and wallet.
Yes, this is the problem, my wallet

Ron,
Is good to know you like Spain. It is a surprise that you don't like subs, I thought it was an audiophile rule.

Sal
Beautiful, what a nice set.

So I guess finally the answer to my question is trial and error. My fear is not to be right because it means a lot of money lost.
My heart wants JBL L100 and my brain says JBL-HDI 1600 + 2 x SVS PB 1000.

 

[Sal1950]

My heart wants JBL L100

Then get them.
I listened to them at the Tampa show 2 years ago and thought they sounded fine.
A big improvement over the L100's of yesteryear. Maybe not as flat in-room as the 1600s but as your
bias will adjust for you.
Yes long term the 1600's and subs will present a more accurate tonal response IF the subs are integrated correctly but I really have no idea if you'll be happy there. Do you have access to them from a dealer that allows reasonable return policys? If you could get a pair for 30 days and did not find them bright and edgy, you might have a long term love affair.

 

[Amateur2020]

Hello Sal,
I do not have the possibility to test and return. You also say maybe 1600's + subs are better option (I assume roomperfect will integrate 1600's and the subs properly) but at the end... Maybe also JBL 698...

 

[neRok]

• Dali Zensor 5
• 2 x subwoofers MIVOC hype 10g2

These should sound fine. The midrange and bass seems plenty flat when looking at this google image shown with a random subwoofer response;


If a combo like that doesn't sound good (when properly set up), then it's the room causing issues. You can swap in different speakers/subs, but unless they are something exotic like cardiods, then the room problems will remain the same (the problems being apparent lack of punch, and punch seems to be <300Hz, more like 80-150Hz range. And <300Hz is exactly where the room messes with things).

"Set up" is critical though. You must get the sub properly crossed to the speakers, in time and SPL. I didn't look up what the "lyngdorf TDAI-1120" is capable of, but if it can't DSP the amp and RCA outputs individually, then it isn't good enough for the job on its own. A 180° phase switch on the back of the subwoofers is rarely good enough either. You really need full control of the filters (low and high pass, types and slopes) and the ability to delay by arbitrary amounts of time.

Have you got a measurement microphone, and can you post your current in room response?

If you really want a single slam dunk fix, I would suggest waiting until a relatively affordable device comes out featuring Dirac Live ART, because it seems a winner.

 

[Amateur2020]

These should sound fine. The midrange and bass seems plenty flat when looking at this google image shown with a random subwoofer response;
View attachment 329748

If a combo like that doesn't sound good (when properly set up), then it's the room causing issues. You can swap in different speakers/subs, but unless they are something exotic like cardiods, then the room problems will remain the same (the problems being apparent lack of punch, and punch seems to be <300Hz, more like 80-150Hz range. And <300Hz is exactly where the room messes with things).

"Set up" is critical though. You must get the sub properly crossed to the speakers, in time and SPL. I didn't look up what the "lyngdorf TDAI-1120" is capable of, but if it can't DSP the amp and RCA outputs individually, then it isn't good enough for the job on its own. A 180° phase switch on the back of the subwoofers is rarely good enough either. You really need full control of the filters (low and high pass, types and slopes) and the ability to delay by arbitrary amounts of time.

Have you got a measurement microphone, and can you post your current in room response?

If you really want a single slam dunk fix, I would suggest waiting until a relatively affordable device comes out featuring Dirac Live ART, because it seems a winner.

Hello neRok,
Thank you for answering. Actual combo sounds good but I feel a lack of punch. Roomperct EQ is made by measurements with a micro but the result is not shown on screen. My idea was to improve the bass extension through 1) a bigger woofer 12" like JBL-L100 or 2) improve the quality of 2+2 set like 1600 and SVS subs.
Of course the room is the master but except EQ I can't do anything. The doubt is if JBL-L100 is too much for my room even with EQ.

 

[norman bates]

Too much ?

Never.

To me, subwoofers don't add punch, they add whoomp.