Genelec 8361A Review (Powered Monitor)

[Sacha]

Measurements seem to show a lot of resonances in time domain in mids and above, and some spikes in distortion in that area at higher volume?

 

[Impossible]

Okay, so here's an interesting one. I and another experienced engineer both experienced the same thing, without prompting, about the mids and highs on the 8361: they're kind of "washy"/indistinct sounding.

Is there anything in the measurements that would indicate why this is or is this one of those purely subjective things that we don't have a good way of looking for yet?

Yes I too experienced the same thing.
The mids are very capable. Maybe because of odd shape, the woofers don't jell well with the mids. Then the tweeter struggles with high spl in the transients and can not keep up with the mids. The difference in effeciency in the drivers is just too different. Again it's mostly noticeable in the transients.

I also have genelec 8050b and they do not have this problem. If I could go back in time I would get the genelec s360 or Alcons audio and be done.

Strangely the 8341a is excellent, no issues. Likely related to the drivers being more proportionally sized and work better together.

 

[Dgob]

So is it possible to call the 8361 "full range"?

Yes, for all intents and purpose (room loading not withstanding). At least, that is the case for stereo music listeners such as me.

As Amir noted in this review, the 8361A's produce a quality of sub bass that calls for nothing more in your average room.

 

[Dgob]

Depends what you mean by full range. Also whether you want it for movies, for which -6db down at 23 hz is definitely not full range. It’s fine for me though and I don’t feel I need more for the music I enjoy. Bass lines and organs all sound excellent!

My thread ( https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...t-reviews-and-listening-pleasure.50289/page-2) provides a playlist (titled AA+) on which my sample music is displayed. Notably, many of these include pipe organ music and EDM with ridiculous sub-bass. The stereo pair of 8361A's does not miss a note, and (I would argue) produces a sense of greater speed, clarity and detail when played in my listening room without my pair of 7360A subs.

 

[Dgob]

Depends on the SPL requested but yes at higher SPL it will have more distortion.

You really shouldn't be exceeding the 80 dB average SPL in regular listening (for health and safety reasons), and the 8361's will play up to 100 dB without the slightest hint of distortion. They are actually specified as going up to 118 dB SPL, so I don't think you need worry about distortion. To paraphrase Amir, 'you just don't have to worry about distortion with these monitors.'

 

[Dgob]

Measurements seem to show a lot of resonances in time domain in mids and above, and some spikes in distortion in that area at higher volume?

I obviously ran the GRADE report for both with and without subs performance in my listening room. And (other than the noted 9Hz loss at the bottom end) performance does not deteriorate without the subs. As I say, it might be worth trying in your listening room - particularly for those who already have the both options: the loss of scale will be made up for with cleaner, faster, more detailed sounding performances.

 

[Dgob]

Doesn't make sense. 8361a should now have more distortion without the sub.

Sounds like you may not have had the crossover to the sub calibrated properly. Obviously mids and tweeter should be the same.

And yes I have tried it.

Fine, maybe the fact is that the best integration (even when using the compensations provided by AutoCal and Auto phase on GLM5) is NO integration. That has always been the case to my experience and seems to be no different here.

Thankfully the 8361A's can stand on their own, and so the need for subs in a small to medium listening space requires exploration. That is what I maintain!

 

[Pearljam5000]

The 8361 sounds better with this mug

 

[Impossible]

Full range normally is related to the full human hearing frequency range of 20hz to 20khz. But Im not sure if there is semantic definition. Untill then there is no right answer.

I don't know of any towers that are truly full range. But there are a bunch of towers that I would say are noticeably more full range then the 8361a. For those low frequencys you need enclosure space and the 8361a although good and big for a monitor isn't big compared to a large tower.

700w and duel 12 cylinder shape woofers is good for a monitor but its no match for a 15" or 18" sub with 2000w or more and double or triple the volume.

 

[Dgob]

I just saw the following on their website:

"The largest of our coaxial point source monitors, the 8361A offers extremely high dynamic range, unrivalled directivity and imaging and a short term SPL of 118 dB, enabling it to deliver an exquisite monitoring experience at any listening distance up to 5 metres – and therefore making it perfect for small to medium sized rooms."

Of course, others might not agree!

 

[Sacha]

I obviously ran the GRADE report for both with and without subs performance in my listening room. And (other than the noted 9Hz loss at the bottom end) performance does not deteriorate without the subs. As I say, it might be worth trying in your listening room - particularly for those who already have the both options: the loss of scale will be made up for with cleaner, faster, more detailed sounding performances.

I have tried it extensively, but the post you quoted was in response to dfuller above.

 

[Dgob]

I have tried it extensively, but the post you quoted was in response to dfuller above.

Yes, Sacha. My response was not meant as a criticism, more of a reinforced point. I think that I did like your comment.

 

[anphex]

As for the resonances, or as some call it "washy" sound in the Genelecs, I think it's mostly to people not being used to a full clean 50° radiation pattern. Most speaker radiation patters cancel out the mids vertically or horizontally, producing a more focussed sound.
The full linear in room response of most coaxials of course produces more reverb and for some people, this may sound too live at first since there are for more ceiling reflections, depending on listening position floor too. But this is the only issue. Other than that, clean radiating coaxials like Genelec, KEF, Kali and MoFI give you the nicest sweet spot ever.

Another hunch of mine for the Genelec 8361 resonances is the large baffle. Large baffles and tweeters/mid woofers don't work well together. The Genelecs have a kind of wave guide there and the mid woofer further acts as a wave guide, but maybe something of that "leaks" out. Note that the Genelc 8361 was a "post series" product that got added later. So maybe it's just as Amir said and Genelec "just scaled the 8351" up to make the 8361. But note that looking at the data, this speaker is still SOTA.

As for the subwoofer debate: my "old" Nuvero 170 have free field response of 23 Hz at -3dB. In room I measured about 10 Hz with that - I still have the measurement files. Still, after upgrading my system to KEF Reference + Subwoofers the bass is something else. The overall sound is cleaner, even more so for actual LFE effects and the speakers aren't pushed that hard anymore. Plus, subwoofers are very adjustable. Some rooms/speakers work better with 40 Hz crossover while some need 80 Hz. It gives you far more flexibility. Though note that good subs also come with a price. I tried the KEF Kube 12 in a dual setup in the beginning. The issue was these have awful impulse response and you even heard a sound like a bicycle tyre exhausting air for a short amount of time. This was unacceptable, even if all other metrics were good. And they were super prone to grounding loops. I bit the sour apple and bought the KC92, thinking I will by happy ever after with that money spend. And I was right, these are great. No more ground loops, no more resonances, stellar impulse response. Long story short, even for super high end ultra speakers, get a matching subwoofer. No speaker out there is really designed for LFE effects.

 

[Esprit]

The mids are very capable. Maybe because of odd shape, the woofers don't jell well with the mids. Then the tweeter struggles with high spl in the transients and can not keep up with the mids

Is Amirm deaf?

 

[Purité Audio]

Silly old Genelec, with their odd shape drivers.
Keith

 

[Esprit]

If only they invested in research

 

[Purité Audio]

It really wants to make me stamp my foot!
If they had used proper shaped drivers then they would jell ( sic) properly.
Keith

 

[holdingpants01]

It really wants to make me stamp my foot!
If they had used proper shaped drivers then they would jell ( sic) properly.
Keith

doesn't matter without beryllium tweeter anyway

 

[dfuller]

Yes I too experienced the same thing.
The mids are very capable. Maybe because of odd shape, the woofers don't jell well with the mids. Then the tweeter struggles with high spl in the transients and can not keep up with the mids. The difference in effeciency in the drivers is just too different. Again it's mostly noticeable in the transients.

I also have genelec 8050b and they do not have this problem. If I could go back in time I would get the genelec s360 or Alcons audio and be done.

Strangely the 8341a is excellent, no issues. Likely related to the drivers being more proportionally sized and work better together.

I don't know if I'd agree with this; the shape of the driver largely isn't that important given it isn't impacting the directivity pattern. My guess is it's something not easily measurable, maybe some kind of intermodulation or diffraction, but that's a spitball guess.

 

[Sacha]

I don't know if I'd agree with this; the shape of the driver largely isn't that important given it isn't impacting the directivity pattern. My guess is it's something not easily measurable, maybe some kind of intermodulation or diffraction, but that's a spitball guess.

What about all this stuff:

Doesn't appear to be there on a KII Three for instance although this is a different visualization: