Denon AVR-A1H High-end AVR Review

[rvsixer]

Choosing the AVR-X6800H or AVR-X3800H with an external power amplifier based on the required number of channels is a smart choice.

Or X4800H ...

 

[EWL5]

Or X4800H ...

3800 and 4800 process the same number of channels. @kawauso's point was about "value".

 

[EWL5]

Choosing the AVR-X6800H or AVR-X3800H with an external power amplifier based on the required number of channels is a smart choice. It delivers better performance than using the AVR-A1H alone, and even compared to the AVR-A1H with an external power amplifier, I think the difference is almost negligible.

In terms of features, the AVR-A1H and AVR-A10H allow custom assignments of internal amplifiers to any channel, whereas models below the AVR-X6800H don't seem to have this customization option.

Not many people may need this, but I find it very useful. I have separate speaker setups for Dolby Atmos and Auro-3D with 12 speakers each, and I can switch between them seamlessly using preset 1 and 2 without rewiring the speakers

Agreed that the 3800 and 6800 represent the best "values" for the entry levels of their respective DACs!

 

[rvsixer]

3800 and 4800 process the same number of channels. @kawauso's point was about "value".

You are speaking for @kawuso? So you are saying a 4800 with external amps is not as smart a choice as an A1H in terms of value (provided it meets your layout requirements)? My "refurb" 4800 was a better "value" to me with its adds over a 3800, especially since it was actually NIB and nearly the same price as a retail 3800.

 

[RadioPalace]

You need to evaluate yourself if 6 Atmos is worth it. With 4 of them you would have 3800H as option for much less - if you feel that it’s measurements are sufficiently transparent. With external amp for 3 or 5 channels, you would be in $2k budget.

There is a step premium moving from 11 to 13 channels and then again from 13 to 15. Beyond 15 there is Storm and Trinnov luxury tax.

I'm almost forced to go with 6 Atmos because I come from a 5.1.2 setup with front highs (couldn't place in ceiling speakers) which I can't repurpose as anything else and don't really feel like selling them, so I would be adding 4 Atmos speakers as in-ceiling ones (the angled ones from focal) maybe I could get away with only two added as top middles but I'm afraid to do it and then be dissatisfied with the result of front highs and top middles and have to make new holes which would be a nightmare due to how the ceiling is being made, I only have one shot at placing the in-ceiling speakers while the construction workers are laying down stuff.

The only other option to stay at 11 channels would be not to add back surrounds.

 

[EWL5]

You are speaking for @kawuso? So you are saying a 4800 with external amps is not as smart a choice as an A1H in terms of value (provided it meets your layout requirements)? My "refurb" 4800 was a better "value" to me with its adds over a 3800, especially since it was actually NIB and nearly the same price as a retail 3800.

I'm sure @kawauso can chime in if I'm off base but it's all there in his first sentence. Bolded for emphasis:
"Choosing the AVR-X6800H or AVR-X3800H with an external power amplifier based on the required number of channels is a smart choice."

The 3800 and 4800 process the same number of channels and and have the same exact DAC. Unless you NEED what the 4800 offers beyond what I just stated for an additional $800 retail to retail (makes no sense to compare refurb price to retail), you're not going to HEAR the difference in wattage b/w the 3800 and 4800!

Also (and @kawauso can correct me), the reason the 3800 and 6800 were called out separately was because they are the cheapest models w/their respective DACs.

No shade on your 4800 purchase but I'm not the only one who has voiced what a value the 3800 is (especially at a BF price close to $1k)!

 

[kawauso]

I'm almost forced to go with 6 Atmos because I come from a 5.1.2 setup with front highs (couldn't place in ceiling speakers) which I can't repurpose as anything else and don't really feel like selling them, so I would be adding 4 Atmos speakers as in-ceiling ones (the angled ones from focal) maybe I could get away with only two added as top middles but I'm afraid to do it and then be dissatisfied with the result of front highs and top middles and have to make new holes which would be a nightmare due to how the ceiling is being made, I only have one shot at placing the in-ceiling speakers while the construction workers are laying down stuff.

The only other option to stay at 11 channels would be not to add back surrounds.

I recommend adding six Atmos speakers. You can use the existing front heights for Auro-3D upmixing.

Compared to using front heights at a 30-degree angle for Atmos, having top front speakers positioned at a 45-degree angle and facing downward creates a more open and immersive overhead soundstage. Personally, I find this setup much more enjoyable.

On the other hand, for Auro-3D upmixing, front heights help create a denser and more engaging front soundstage, which I prefer.

Since you only have one chance to install in-ceiling speakers, I strongly recommend going with six Atmos speakers to avoid any regrets. Also, for the AVR, I’d suggest either the A10H or A1H.

 

[Oddball]

I'm almost forced to go with 6 Atmos because I come from a 5.1.2 setup with front highs (couldn't place in ceiling speakers) which I can't repurpose as anything else and don't really feel like selling them, so I would be adding 4 Atmos speakers as in-ceiling ones (the angled ones from focal) maybe I could get away with only two added as top middles but I'm afraid to do it and then be dissatisfied with the result of front highs and top middles and have to make new holes which would be a nightmare due to how the ceiling is being made, I only have one shot at placing the in-ceiling speakers while the construction workers are laying down stuff.

The only other option to stay at 11 channels would be not to add back surrounds.

Not really sure I follow. You can always disengage the speakers that you don't use. Top middles are always a thing to beware. Lots of pros and cons out there that you should explore.

 

[RadioPalace]

Not really sure I follow. You can always disengage the speakers that you don't use. Top middles are always a thing to beware. Lots of pros and cons out there that you should explore.

I probably didn't do a great job at explaining the situation, what I meant is that I already have the front heights speakers, now I have the opportunity to add in ceiling speakers and I was thinking of adding top fronts and top rears.

I also already have 5 speakers for the bed layer and will finally have space to place rear surrounds. This is why I'm looking for the right avr or avr+amp combo to power 13 channels.

I could surely not use the front heights and stay at 11 channels but I feel bad about wasting the speakers I have as front heights. They are Klipsch rp-500sa that I bought a few years ago hoping the magic bounce on the ceiling would work, hope was stronger than rationality and I quickly realized they did a poor job at virtualizing actual Atmos speakers, so I mounted them on the wall as front heights. Not reusing them in this new setup would be a total defeat and waste of money. I made a mistake in buying them I do realize this.

 

[rvsixer]

I'm sure @kawauso can chime in if I'm off base but it's all there in his first sentence. Bolded for emphasis:
"Choosing the AVR-X6800H or AVR-X3800H with an external power amplifier based on the required number of channels is a smart choice."

The 3800 and 4800 process the same number of channels and and have the same exact DAC. Unless you NEED what the 4800 offers beyond what I just stated for an additional $800 retail to retail (makes no sense to compare refurb price to retail), you're not going to HEAR the difference in wattage b/w the 3800 and 4800!

Also (and @kawauso can correct me), the reason the 3800 and 6800 were called out separately was because they are the cheapest models w/their respective DACs.

No shade on your 4800 purchase but I'm not the only one who has voiced what a value the 3800 is (especially at a BF price close to $1k)!

Serious?
1) The DAC difference was already addressed prior to my 4800 input, no need to bring it up
2) @kawauso already did chime in on my 4800 suggestion (likey)
3) How I took @kawaso's post; that quite correctly there are Denon models, that if they meet your channel count requirements one can certainly have better value over an A1H (and based on that, the 3800/4800/6800 would all do the trick)
4) Why bring up you are not going to hear the difference between the (internal) wattage of 3800/4800 amps? The whole discussion is around using EXTERNAL amps with the 3800/4800/6800.
5) I said I got quite lucky in getting a NEW 4800 at near NEW 3800 price (I was not literally comparing refurb to new pricing on two differing models, that would be silly)
Let's leave it go now please.

 

[EWL5]

5) I said I got quite lucky in getting a NEW 4800 at near NEW 3800 price (I was not literally comparing refurb to new pricing on two differing models, that would be silly)
Let's leave it go now please.

So you're going to say that you didn't mention "refurb" yourself?

You are speaking for @kawuso? So you are saying a 4800 with external amps is not as smart a choice as an A1H in terms of value (provided it meets your layout requirements)? My "refurb" 4800 was a better "value" to me with its adds over a 3800, especially since it was actually NIB and nearly the same price as a retail 3800.

You seem very defensive and I'm not sure why...

 

[ban25]

Not really sure I follow. You can always disengage the speakers that you don't use. Top middles are always a thing to beware. Lots of pros and cons out there that you should explore.

I went through the 6 vs 4 in-ceiling debate and settled on 4 after looking carefully at the actual content available:

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/atmos-mixes-9-1-6-channel-activity.3292223/

Problem being that there are a fair number of mixes which utilize only the two top middle channels, and this results in a thin, static Atmos experience if you are running 6 heights. With 4 heights, those 2-height (Atmouse) mixes get distributed evenly to all four top speakers, while you still get the panning effects front to back and side to side with more active mixes.

 

[Fidji]

I probably didn't do a great job at explaining the situation, what I meant is that I already have the front heights speakers, now I have the opportunity to add in ceiling speakers and I was thinking of adding top fronts and top rears.

I also already have 5 speakers for the bed layer and will finally have space to place rear surrounds. This is why I'm looking for the right avr or avr+amp combo to power 13 channels.

I could surely not use the front heights and stay at 11 channels but I feel bad about wasting the speakers I have as front heights. They are Klipsch rp-500sa that I bought a few years ago hoping the magic bounce on the ceiling would work, hope was stronger than rationality and I quickly realized they did a poor job at virtualizing actual Atmos speakers, so I mounted them on the wall as front heights. Not reusing them in this new setup would be a total defeat and waste of money. I made a mistake in buying them I do realize this.

Only mistake you can make now, is to hang on to past mistakes. In financial terms it is called “sunk costs”, or “throwing good money after bad”
Your Klipsches are amortised by now - if you divide price you paid per hours listened, they served their purpose and paid for themselves. Spending extra money on receiver trying to accomodate them without having any sonic benefit - is actual waste of money.

Proper 7.x.4 is all you need in normal sized room - I would argue, that if you want to go to 13 channels, 9.x.4 is better choice than 7.x.6. (with x = as much as possible )

 

[john11]

Seperates all the way, these integrated suck.
You can get much better performance from an external dac and a few stereo power amps
Integrated look neater with everything in one box and are less complex
Seperates are more work with cables going everywhere, but sound better and work out cheaper

 

[kawauso]

Only mistake you can make now, is to hang on to past mistakes. In financial terms it is called “sunk costs”, or “throwing good money after bad”
Your Klipsches are amortised by now - if you divide price you paid per hours listened, they served their purpose and paid for themselves. Spending extra money on receiver trying to accomodate them without having any sonic benefit - is actual waste of money.

Proper 7.x.4 is all you need in normal sized room - I would argue, that if you want to go to 13 channels, 9.x.4 is better choice than 7.x.6. (with x = as much as possible )

Certainly, the difference between 4 and 6 Atmos speakers is not as significant as the difference in the number of base layer speakers. However, I wouldn't go so far as to say that 6 Atmos has no acoustic benefits.

I've tested various configurations with the AVR-A1H and eventually settled on 5.4.6 for my KEF room and 7.2.6 for my JBL room. The sound from front wides didn’t suit my preferences.

 

[bigguyca]

Bi-amping with the same amplifier (such as the Denon in question) does not increase power consumption, as the losses remain the same due to sharing a single power supply.

Bi-amping with two separate amplifiers will consume more power since each amplifier has its own power supply, resulting in twice the losses.

Are your sure? This may not be a straightforward question.

 

[Old_School_Brad]

Are your sure? This may not be a straightforward question.

Yes, unless the amplifier is equipped with the ability to cut off power to unused channels. Even then, the difference in power consumption should be negligible.

 

[Oddball]

I probably didn't do a great job at explaining the situation, what I meant is that I already have the front heights speakers, now I have the opportunity to add in ceiling speakers and I was thinking of adding top fronts and top rears.

I also already have 5 speakers for the bed layer and will finally have space to place rear surrounds. This is why I'm looking for the right avr or avr+amp combo to power 13 channels.

I could surely not use the front heights and stay at 11 channels but I feel bad about wasting the speakers I have as front heights. They are Klipsch rp-500sa that I bought a few years ago hoping the magic bounce on the ceiling would work, hope was stronger than rationality and I quickly realized they did a poor job at virtualizing actual Atmos speakers, so I mounted them on the wall as front heights. Not reusing them in this new setup would be a total defeat and waste of money. I made a mistake in buying them I do realize this.

If budget not an issue, then generally more is better. However, take a look at @ban25 post about 6 vs. 4. I also ended up with 4 for now, but have an option to add top middles in the future.

Good luck and enjoy.

 

[peng]

Yes, unless the amplifier is equipped with the ability to cut off power to unused channels. Even then, the difference in power consumption should be negligible.

I would agree that it may not be a straightforward thing, losses are not only in the power supply/supplies, but also in the amplifier/amplifiers and the loading has to be considered too. Not really sure why "consumption" is a concerned though, as I don't think that matters (ie not likely a factor to them) to most users who want to biamp.

 

[Aventador_SVJ]

Serious?
1) The DAC difference was already addressed prior to my 4800 input, no need to bring it up
2) @kawauso already did chime in on my 4800 suggestion (likey)
3) How I took @kawaso's post; that quite correctly there are Denon models, that if they meet your channel count requirements one can certainly have better value over an A1H (and based on that, the 3800/4800/6800 would all do the trick)
4) Why bring up you are not going to hear the difference between the (internal) wattage of 3800/4800 amps? The whole discussion is around using EXTERNAL amps with the 3800/4800/6800.
5) I said I got quite lucky in getting a NEW 4800 at near NEW 3800 price (I was not literally comparing refurb to new pricing on two differing models, that would be silly)
Let's leave it go now please.

Isn't the 4800 the best value due to it's jitter circuitry, which the 3800 does not possess?

Most people are going to be using HDMI, which is notoriously harsh with reference to handling of jitter, so wouldn't the 4800 be the optimal choice with external amps? Amirm's objective measurements suggest this as-well.