Denon AVR-A1H High-end AVR Review

[bo_knows]

Thanks.
This party was supposed to be focused on the A1H, and if it perhaps brought more to the table.

Hello Zentiques,

I asked the same question in the bi-amp thread a while ago (it would take me forever to find my entry in that thread and repost it here) and in my personal experience with KEF reference 2 speakers, bi-amp didn't make any audible difference with 8500H AVR. I don't know if it would make a difference with A1H.
Here's Denon's note on why bi-amping may make a difference:

 

[pogo]

Here's something to think about regarding bi-wiring/amping: Link

The output impedance of 1ET9040BA is significantly lower than the resistance of even a single high quality output binding post. To derive the greatest benefit of the ultra-low output impedance, 1ET9040BA is fitted with a four-pole output connector which permits bi-wiring. This prevents load dependent currents from e.g. the bass section of a speaker from impacting the mid/tweeter section. 1ET9040BA’s ultra-low output impedance offers a degree of isolation that can otherwise only be matched by full bi-amping.

 

[Chrispy]

I think you do Denon engineers a disservice.
Here are the power amp modules for the 4520 and the A1H respectively.
They're clearly different, and the A1H has better performance than preceding models.
View attachment 428201View attachment 428202

Curious then, different how particularly? is it format of the boards or a complete redesign or? and how much better performance?

 

[Frank207be]

I'd be interested in Bi-amping if you could use LPF and HPF filters.

This would enable me to add (DIY) bass modules make my existing surround speakers fullrange or semi-fullrange. This could be quite useful for Dirac ART.

 

[Frank207be]

Curious then, different how particularly? is it format of the boards or a complete redesign or? and how much better performance?

From 30:25

 

[kawauso]

I am using the AVR-A1H. My room is not very large, but it has enough power to drive my low-efficiency KEF Reference speakers, delivering clean sound even at quite high volumes, reaching 105dB in 2-channel mode. I will soon be adding a Buckeye NCx500 to gain a few extra dB of headroom. However, based on this review, the XLR output performance seems underwhelming, so using RCA might be the better choice.

I also have an AVR-A1H in another room with JBL K2 speakers. Since they are much more efficient than the KEFs, an external amplifier is completely unnecessary, and I’m very satisfied with its performance. My AVR-A1H has a silver finish, which gives it a very elegant look that I really like.

 

[EWL5]

Alright, I give up !!!!
Made sure to use extra exclamation points that you seem to enjoy.
The upgrade from a 3700 and monoblocks was noticeable. And I'm happy with the sound, but for you, I should rewire, take a listen, measure it, and then restore it to compare. There's a better chance of Amir carrying one upstairs !!!

I think you read too much into people's statements and somehow conclude w/the worst case scenario.

There's plenty of other folks responding to you so I'll gladly end my interaction w/you. Have a blessed day!

 

[zentiques]

I think you read too much into people's statements and somehow conclude w/the worst case scenario.

There's plenty of other folks responding to you so I'll gladly end my interaction w/you. Have a blessed day!

John 3:16 !

 

[da Choge]

My AVR-A1H has a silver finish, which gives it a very elegant look that I really like.

Always loved the silver finishes on Denon and Marantz receivers and separates. Looks great!

 

[mtbdudex]

I'm thinking along the same lines. I think the key element is to separate D to A conversion from audio and video DSP, and from the power amps.
One option is to get a JBL SDP-55 with Dante output and connect it to a Dante-enabled multi-channel audio interface like the RME M-1620 Pro D or Antelope Galaxy 32.
They are recording-studio quality, and have relatively high level analogue outputs that can drive some interesting Hypex and Purifi power amps without buffers.
There are lots of other interesting options.

Interestng. This is the first time I haver heard of the Dante interface. Will have to investigate.

Hmm, I kinda led from Dec-2014 - 2017 the "The official Denon 2016/2017 flagship AVR (x9200w?) wishlist", which became the 8500H and upon launch Feb-2018 of 50 items, 23 were adopted ( yes) and 27 were not (no).
Many of the "no's" were adopted in the A1H, hence I purchased one and sold my 8500H.

In my memory we did talk about Dante output way back then instead of RCA pre-outs .. somewhere in that thread it's in there.
>>DB-25 for less "stuff" on back AVR going into the separate amp ... oh well ...

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/the-official-denon-2018-flagship-avr-x8500h-wishlist.1785090/#post-29491946

Google spreadhseet I maintained

2018 Denon Wishlist

docs.google.com

visual of final output.

Hey - who here wants to take charge and lead the next Gen Flagship past the A1H?
I've done my part...
Seriously, anyone gonna do it?
If not, all these "next gen" ideas / possibilities get lost in the soup.

Back then on AVS we had near direct line to Denon by some AVS members, their engineering dept was watching that list.
I could have become a "Denon insider", get pre-prod product for evaluations and back then help evangelize their products.
Decided against it, too busy family life/work, I do know others directly who did.

 

[scampbell1839]

Are there any reviews or measurements of the phono stage on the A1H? I really enjoy it over several of my dedicated phono preamps.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

I've been meaning to reply to this for ages. There have been many class D receivers over the years, and some were tested on ASR. Here's a sample.

Focal Astral 16
Onkyo TX-RZ1100
Panasonic SA-XR57 and others
Pioneer SC-LX90 Susano
Pioneer SC-61 and others
Sony TA-DA9000ES and others
NAD T778
Storm Fusion 20

The advantages are obvious, but they didn't really seem to catch on. I suspect that conventional linear amps are cheaper.

Maybe more reliable

 

[kawauso]

Always loved the silver finishes on Denon and Marantz receivers and separates. Looks great!

The black color doesn’t look much different from the lower-end models, but just having the silver finish makes it feel more luxurious to me, and I really like it.


I have my JBL speakers' L/R connected in a bi-amp configuration since I had extra speaker output channels available on the AVR-A1H. From this thread, I’ve learned that bi-amping provides no audible benefits and only increases power consumption. Once I recalibrate my speakers, I plan to remove the bi-amp setup.

Denon should have focused less on explaining bi-amping in the manual and instead emphasized that the speaker pre-outs perform better with RCA than XLR, making RCA the recommended choice

 

[EWL5]

The black color doesn’t look much different from the lower-end models, but just having the silver finish makes it feel more luxurious to me, and I really like it.


I have my JBL speakers' L/R connected in a bi-amp configuration since I had extra speaker output channels available on the AVR-A1H. From this thread, I’ve learned that bi-amping provides no audible benefits and only increases power consumption. Once I recalibrate my speakers, I plan to remove the bi-amp setup.

Denon should have focused less on explaining bi-amping in the manual and instead emphasized that the speaker pre-outs perform better with RCA than XLR, making RCA the recommended choice

Marketing is very powerful and Denon is not doing anything that no one else is doing. That's why we should all be thankful that we have ASR reviews to wade through to make decisions for ourselves!

 

[zentiques]

The black color doesn’t look much different from the lower-end models, but just having the silver finish makes it feel more luxurious to me, and I really like it.


I have my JBL speakers' L/R connected in a bi-amp configuration since I had extra speaker output channels available on the AVR-A1H. From this thread, I’ve learned that bi-amping provides no audible benefits and only increases power consumption. Once I recalibrate my speakers, I plan to remove the bi-amp setup.

Denon should have focused less on explaining bi-amping in the manual and instead emphasized that the speaker pre-outs perform better with RCA than XLR, making RCA the recommended choice

Exclamation points aside, where in this thread did it show bi amping, audible or not, increases power consumption ?

 

[kawauso]

Exclamation points aside, where in this thread did it show bi amping, audible or not, increases power consumption ?

The table in the linked post shows that passive bi-amping consumes more power than single-amp driving at the same output.

Bi-amping 101

This article provides a quick look at how bi-amplification works. The conventional scheme is to split the signal into two frequency bands before the power amplifiers that drive the speakers. The bass (LF) amp sees only LF signals and drives only the LF driver (woofer). The treble (HF) amp sees...

audiosciencereview.com

Also, as explained here, most of the power is concentrated in the lower frequencies, and passive bi-amping does not improve voltage headroom.

Bi-amping 101

This article provides a quick look at how bi-amplification works. The conventional scheme is to split the signal into two frequency bands before the power amplifiers that drive the speakers. The bass (LF) amp sees only LF signals and drives only the LF driver (woofer). The treble (HF) amp sees...

audiosciencereview.com

I don't know exactly how much power consumption increases at the volume levels I normally use with the AVR-A1H, but since I've found that bi-amping has absolutely no audible benefits, I plan to stop using it. For me, it doesn't make sense to use a setup that unnecessarily increases power consumption. That said, I'm not saying you should stop bi-amping, nor am I dismissing your experience with it.

 

[welwynnick]

Exclamation points aside, where in this thread did it show bi amping, audible or not, increases power consumption ?

I was wondering that, too.

The table in the linked post shows that passive bi-amping consumes more power than single-amp driving at the same output.

Bi-amping 101

This article provides a quick look at how bi-amplification works. The conventional scheme is to split the signal into two frequency bands before the power amplifiers that drive the speakers. The bass (LF) amp sees only LF signals and drives only the LF driver (woofer). The treble (HF) amp sees...

audiosciencereview.com

So if passive bi-amping consumes more power - where does the power go ? Fundamentally, it has to go somewhere.

 

[zentiques]

I was wondering that, too.

So if passive bi-amping consumes more power - where does the power go ? Fundamentally, it has to go somewhere.

Sorry about the mess, but staying with the A1H, does this amp design bring anything different to the table, than say, the 8500 ? If not, I'm good with that.

 

[Old_School_Brad]

Bi-amping with the same amplifier (such as the Denon in question) does not increase power consumption, as the losses remain the same due to sharing a single power supply.

Bi-amping with two separate amplifiers will consume more power since each amplifier has its own power supply, resulting in twice the losses.

 

[Golfx]

Sorry about the mess, but staying with the A1H, does this amp design bring anything different to the table, than say, the 8500 ? If not, I'm good with that.

Did you read both ASR reviews?