Denon AVR 1700h with 4 ohm speakers

[Bleib]

I think the 1800 would not have much a problem with the Elacs

 

[livinon2wheels]

Hello. I picked up a Denon 1700h for home theater before I knew more about power needs; It doesn't have pre-outs for external amplifiers and I have a power question. I currently run Emotiva b1+ (87 db 8 ohm) and c1+ (89 db 4 ohm) as my front 3 speakers, with Neumi BS 5 as surrounds. I'm running dual RSL subs and a 80 hz cut off. It sounds good and the AVR barely gets warm. I'd like to upgrade my front L & R speakers to the Emotiva XT1 towers (89 db 4 ohm) and move the b1+ to surround duties. Am I likely to hVe power/overload issues adding the 4 ohm towers?

I don't generally play above 75 db at about 10 ft away. My goal is for a fuller/bigger sound. I also like to watch concerts on TV running the AVR in stereo mode. The little bookshelf b1+ just sound small in this use. I will upgrade the electronics eventually, but hope the existing Denon 1700 will be okay for a while.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.



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I seriously doubt you are pushing that receiver hard enough at 75 ish db to create a problem at ANY impedance you are likely to find on modern consumer speakers. That said, doing some calculations might be in order. Give yourself 10 db of headroom and do your calculations there. IF you are within the receivers parameters at that 10 db headroom point you will be ok for a very long time. Of course all bets are off if you decide to crank it for your favorite song or movie scene. If the Denon supports external amps, start saving up and go there...thinking about what you think your end game speaker might be and do the math. Buy an amp with 3-6 db more power than you need, it will save you anguish in the long run.

Here is my approach, when I design a system for me, I plan on being able to provide adequate clean power to produce 115 db peaks in the listening room @ 1 meter. My typical listening distance from the mains is about 8 feet, so the level there will be down some from that. Approximately 9 db. So that gives me a peak at listening position of 106 db based on a single speaker. But since this is stereo its back up to 109 db. This is the threshold of a live rock concert with peaks that go probably 10 db higher. So this gives not quite live levels but close enough. Its a measured approach that sacrifices some dynamic range for the sake of affordability. The speakers I am looking at are 95 db efficient at 1 watt. So at 10 watts we have 105 db and at 100 watts, 115 db. Now I know how much amplifier I need for the desired sound pressure level. Then I take that and double it. That gives 3 db headroom over and above the desired output so the amp never goes into clipping and doesn't burn up your tweeters. The amp will never be pressed to max output unless you deliberately go there. Long life for the amp and for your speakers. Its a way of figuring out what you need and having a margin of error so you dont damage equipment. I would seriously like to know what you think of my approach. After 50 years Plus of messing with home hi-fi gear this is my current approach and so far it is working pretty darn well.

 

[djb]

I seriously doubt you are pushing that receiver hard enough at 75 ish db to create a problem at ANY impedance you are likely to find on modern consumer speakers. That said, doing some calculations might be in order. Give yourself 10 db of headroom and do your calculations there. IF you are within the receivers parameters at that 10 db headroom point you will be ok for a very long time. Of course all bets are off if you decide to crank it for your favorite song or movie scene. If the Denon supports external amps, start saving up and go there...thinking about what you think your end game speaker might be and do the math. Buy an amp with 3-6 db more power than you need, it will save you anguish in the long run.

Here is my approach, when I design a system for me, I plan on being able to provide adequate clean power to produce 115 db peaks in the listening room @ 1 meter. My typical listening distance from the mains is about 8 feet, so the level there will be down some from that. Approximately 9 db. So that gives me a peak at listening position of 106 db based on a single speaker. But since this is stereo its back up to 109 db. This is the threshold of a live rock concert with peaks that go probably 10 db higher. So this gives not quite live levels but close enough. Its a measured approach that sacrifices some dynamic range for the sake of affordability. The speakers I am looking at are 95 db efficient at 1 watt. So at 10 watts we have 105 db and at 100 watts, 115 db. Now I know how much amplifier I need for the desired sound pressure level. Then I take that and double it. That gives 3 db headroom over and above the desired output so the amp never goes into clipping and doesn't burn up your tweeters. The amp will never be pressed to max output unless you deliberately go there. Long life for the amp and for your speakers. Its a way of figuring out what you need and having a margin of error so you dont damage equipment. I would seriously like to know what you think of my approach. After 50 years Plus of messing with home hi-fi gear this is my current approach and so far it is working pretty darn well.

This sounds like a solid action plan and has obviously worked for you.

I went a cheap route for the short term. I had the (l/r) B1+ way too close to the wall. So I got some new speaker stands and moved my front speakers further out into the room , like almost almost a meter, and and re-ran Audyssey. Also adjusted the rear and sub placements. It made a much bigger improvement to sound stage/imaging than I thought. It's enough of an improvement that I'm enjoying the system more and I don't feel as anxious about my future upgrade plans.

I love it when there's a noise in a scene that makes you look around because you can't tell if it's a real noise coming from the house or just part of the show.

 

[livinon2wheels]

I'm glad you found a way to improve your experience. I'm looking for ways to do that here. I have already explored most pathways of cheap upgrades so far. Soon it will be time to spend some money.