Big news coming from Sound United in 2023!

[dlaloum]

I have a Pioneer SC-LX86 and I'm looking for a replacement supporting HDMI 2.1. I can't seem to find any Class D AVRs anymore and this thread is not very encouraging. Do you know of any candidates or is Class D dead in the 'mainstream'-market?

The only "mainstream" AVR that is class D is from NAD...

Pioneer have not ruled out coming back to a Class D design, but not in the current generation (current generation is an Onkyo badge engineered clone - and Onkyo have traditionally been Class AB) - so it is probably at least 2 to 3 years away from Pioneer (if it will happen at all).

The other relevant question,... is whether Class D really brings something additional to the table...

In my opinion there would be gains achievable from using a switching power supply, to provide much higher current and headroom, while keeping the existing Class AB designs...

The RZ70/LX805 tier (equivalent to your SC-LX86) seem to have excellent amps as it is... and unlike previous generations, they do not run hot, and seem quite efficient - so not much to be gained from a switch to Class D.

 

[Dougey_Jones]

My question is, why does OP specifically want a class D AVR? I could understand if he specifically wanted a Hypex based AVR, but just standard class D? Why?

 

[GXAlan]

My question is, why does OP specifically want a class D AVR? I could understand if he specifically wanted a Hypex based AVR, but just standard class D? Why?

Heat and weight are two good reasons IMHO. The old ICE-amp Pioneer's were fine because any load dependent behavior could also be corrected with EQ.

 

[Chromatischism]

I agree. I'm surprised they haven't all gone Class D just for energy regulations. Instead, they hid a "4 ohm mode" they don't really intend for you to use and slapped a sticker on the box that it meets certification requirements.

D+M claim that their reluctance to use Class D has to do with sound and "tuning". I'm not sure.

 

[Newman]

Maybe there are certain patents on aspects of Class D, that they don’t want to go without, but don’t want to pay for. eg maybe load immunity

 

[EWL5]

Maybe there are certain patents on aspects of Class D, that they don’t want to go without, but don’t want to pay for. eg maybe load immunity

Other than B&O ICE amps, I'm not familiar w/any other flavor of Class D in mass market products.

 

[Svend P]

My question is, why does OP specifically want a class D AVR? I could understand if he specifically wanted a Hypex based AVR, but just standard class D? Why?

On New Years Eve I played quite loud with my Denon AVR-X4800H with Revel F208 and F328BE as center, subwoofers crossed at 150 Hz. While it has plenty of power for my needs, after 10 mins it was extremely hot and as a precaution I have now put an USB fan on top of it. Meanwhile my daughter is having a party in the living room for 25 14 year olds, and my Lyngdorf TDAI2200 did not break a sweat running extremely loud for 5 hours on end. If I could find a class D surround receiver, I would. But a bunch of Fosi V3's might do the trick, if I feel the need for cool power.

 

[GXAlan]

D+M claim that their reluctance to use Class D has to do with sound and "tuning". I'm not sure.

The flagship products from Marantz are all Class D: PM-10, AMP10, Model 30.

What I recall reading is that at the price point they target, it is easier to produce a cheap Class AB that sounds good than a cheap class D at the same exact bill of materials. At the high end, it is possible to make a better Class D at the high end. Essentially two channels of the HypeX or modified ICE amps are much more expensive than 2 channels of their Class AB design.

 

[ban25]

Other than B&O ICE amps, I'm not familiar w/any other flavor of Class D in mass market products.

Don't forget about all the Soundbars...

 

[mhardy6647]

The other relevant question,... is whether Class D really brings something additional to the table...

I would think that any subassembly that reduces the heat load inside the cramped, crowded box of an AVR would be a significant benefit in the long run*.

________________
* Realizing full well that neither the manufacturers nor their target market care about the long run for an AVR. It is a fashion industry, and the danged AVRs are fast fashion by definition and by design. The "technology" at the core of an AVR is (still?!) such a moving target, the long-term robustness of the hardware's not really a viable concern for designers nor consumers.
Whether that's a horrific miscalculation in light of 21st century concerns regarding resource management, I'll leave for everyone to ponder.

 

[Arc78]

I have been following this thread with interest as I am looking to replace a Marantz AV8801 prepro with an up to date receiver and the new Denon X3800/X4800 have many features I am looking for at what I consider to be a reasonable price. I use a NAD M25 7 channel amplifier and would continue to use that in addition to the receiver’s onboard amplification to enable ATMOS and other surround sound formats using more channels. System usage is 40% HT/20% Gaming/40% music, most of which is digitized multi-channel SACD, DVDA and Blu-ray. I am looking at these receivers because of their cost and I like the potential of being able to downsize or possibly eliminate the need for a separate amplifier in the future.

One of the things I am curious about is the DAC used in the X3800/4800 (PCM5102A) and how it compares to the one used in the 8801 (TI PCM1795). While I like the overall sound of my 8801 with digital sources, when I compared it with a Khadas Tone Board (ES9038Q2M), I preferred the sound of the Tone Board over the internal DACs of the 8801. Similarly, I slightly preferred the sound of a DacMagic 100 (Wolfson WM8742) over the 8801, but not as much as the Tone Board. I see that the new AVC-A1H will have the ES9018K2M, but that will be more than I want to spend on this purchase.

I know there is a lot more to the sound quality then just the DAC's used, however I am interested in thoughts on whether moving from the Marantz 8801 to the X3800/X4800 plus M25 and potentially minus the M25 in the future would be a step up, down or about the same in audio sound quality from digital sources.

Have you this up and running? This is my plan fun to hear how it worked out!