Big news coming from Sound United in 2023!

[multisport4me]

That's not my understanding...

Not mine either. I have 4 different types of subs and DLBC worked beautifully in my setup.

 

[Terry Stahly]

I had my AV10 installed in my system while I was on vacation and watched a movie on Apple TV and the picture looks better through the AV10 than it did with my AV8805. I am pretty sure this is not in my head but when I watch Top Gun Maverick UHD 4k on my Panasonic UB9000 I will be have a better idea. I also had four Revel C783 in ceiling speakers and two Krell amps KAV-150 and KAV300i put in the system for them and will see how that works and interested in hearing the difference. The remote is a lot nicer and it seems to be more user friendly as well.

 

[Chromatischism]

There is no way that the AVR improved the picture.

 

[jhaider]

That's not my understanding...

Writing as someone who has used DLBC with subs with different capabilities in the multiple system for years, I agree with your understanding.

However, I think what @chych7 is trying to say is DLBC starts with 2 assumptions
1) All subs will operate over the same bandwidth, as opposed to an early Geddes style setup with small “broadband” subs and a “ULF” sub. He’s not wrong, but this type of configuration was basically obsoleted more well before the 2008 financial crash when (a) good dedicated subwoofer drivers with motors that offered linear inductance over a long throw emerged at reasonable cost and (b) large long throw “pro” drivers, with high upper bass sensitivity and well engineered thermal management came onto the market.

The other assumption @chych7 may be referring to with DLBC is that the subwoofers are reasonably similar in capability. For example, DLBC id not designed to optimize a subwoofer system with 2 high powered 18s in large cabinets on the floor and a small sub with 2 8” woofers mounted high on a shelf. You can’t manually tell DLBC to make sub C at least x dB attenuated compared to subs A and B, and unless there’s been an update I don’t know about it can’t “sense” subwoofer size.

Note I’m using the word “assumption” rather than “limitation.” These assumptions are a different category than something dumb, such as pretending that broadband level and delay matching of two subs is “multisub integration.”

 

[dlaloum]

There is no way that the AVR improved the picture.

Some AVR's have (or at least they used to have!) graphics processing chips that would upscale and process the input.... they were intended to provide better output quality than was input. (thinking of my long gone Onkyo TX-SR876)

 

[techsamurai]

Some AVR's have (or at least they used to have!) graphics processing chips that would upscale and process the input.... they were intended to provide better output quality than was input. (thinking of my long gone Onkyo TX-SR876)

If the RZ50/Integra/Pioneer models benched as the SR876, we would not be talking about any other AVR today. If they slapped a toroidal and charged $2,000 like the 906, it'd be endgame.

 

[Hayabusa]

Some AVR's have (or at least they used to have!) graphics processing chips that would upscale and process the input.... they were intended to provide better output quality than was input. (thinking of my long gone Onkyo TX-SR876)

Indeed upscaling with right amount of 'sharpening' can at least give a better impression.

 

[sask15]

I know they are the same company and all but I was looking at the Crutchfield images of the 4800 vs Cinema 40 and they are pretty much identical(from the top view anyway). Backlit remote, different binding posts, blue vs green transformer trim ha ha, some tweaks to the sound and cosmetics but it’s pretty hard to justify the $1200 CDN price difference. I like the look of the Marantz but the 4800 seems like a bargain in comparison. Seems a little outrageous but I have seen posts that state in other countries they are priced quite similar. Getting hosed in Canada I guess.

 

[techsamurai]

I know they are the same company and all but I was looking at the Crutchfield images of the 4800 vs Cinema 40 and they are pretty much identical(from the top view anyway). Backlit remote, different binding posts, blue vs green transformer trim ha ha, some tweaks to the sound and cosmetics but it’s pretty hard to justify the $1200 CDN price difference. I like the look of the Marantz but the 4800 seems like a bargain in comparison. Seems a little outrageous but I have seen posts that state in other countries they are priced quite similar. Getting hosed in Canada I guess.

Great find.

Well, you can say the same about the Cinema 50 and 60 - they are 5016s and 6016s and those things were $900 and $1,500 not that long ago. So the hosing extends to the other models and the US. We also don't get the silver one cause why should we?

 

[sask15]

Yes the hosing is across the board as you say but identical chips, boards, everything. Just seems kind of crazy why they aren’t the same price within reason. Maybe the soundmaster spent less time perfectly “tuning” the Denon too who knows(extra labour costs to get the soundmaster in to listen to the Marantz. No, I have the 4800 but just thought I would point out the similarities between them.

 

[techsamurai]

Yes the hosing is across the board as you say but identical chips, boards, everything. Just seems kind of crazy why they aren’t the same price within reason.

I'm at a loss for words especially when the Denon 3800h costs $1,700 and has worse DACs than the 3700h which started at $1,000. I hope someone swoops in and they force Marantz and Denon to release x1 models next year lowering the price of all current models and then identical x2 models just offering deep discounts of 40% to compete.

 

[sask15]

I would say if they had to show the receipts there aren’t the price increases for the components to justify these prices.

 

[Chromatischism]

Some AVR's have (or at least they used to have!) graphics processing chips that would upscale and process the input.... they were intended to provide better output quality than was input. (thinking of my long gone Onkyo TX-SR876)

They can, but TVs do it better.

Even still, that would have no impact on video that does not need upscaling.

 

[techsamurai]

They can, but TVs do it better.

Even still, that would have no impact on video that does not need upscaling.

That might not be desirable. The blu-ray player applies its own processing, then your TV applies its own even if it's 4k. If it's a Sony, you definitely wouldn't want Marantz touching the picture before it does any processing.


Is it possible that the signal is simply kept clean in the AV10?

 

[Chromatischism]

That might not be desirable. The blu-ray player applies its own processing, then your TV applies its own. If it's a Sony, you definitely wouldn't want Marantz touching the picture before it does any processing.

Yeah. You can set your player to output unmodified video and let the TV handle it. AVR should just be "passthrough".

 

[CyrusTheGreat_600BC]

I know they are the same company and all but I was looking at the Crutchfield images of the 4800 vs Cinema 40 and they are pretty much identical(from the top view anyway). Backlit remote, different binding posts, blue vs green transformer trim ha ha, some tweaks to the sound and cosmetics but it’s pretty hard to justify the $1200 CDN price difference. I like the look of the Marantz but the 4800 seems like a bargain in comparison. Seems a little outrageous but I have seen posts that state in other countries they are priced quite similar. Getting hosed in Canada I guess.

When I was into Marantz from 13 years ago to about 4 years ago, my local dealer gave me 25% discount on all of their receivers. He wasn’t selling Denon interestingly though. So I assume Marantz has a higher markup for dealers.

 

[spaceboi]

Sound United (now) Masimo Consumer Training Videos for Denon and Marantz 2023 models are now on youtube.

some interesting results on offer.

DENON AVC-A1H

MARANTZ AV10/AMP10

 

[GXAlan]

The AV10 seems to be the processor to beat unless you need Trinnov.

 

[Dougey_Jones]

The AV10 seems to be the processor to beat unless you need Trinnov

Yea, wow.. Had no expectation that they’d improve their game by as much as they have. Not cheap at all, but great performance.

 

[dlaloum]

Onkyo have yet to release their RZ90 (Integra DRX R1.4).... which is expected to come out in both AVR and AVP versions.

Always good to have competition!

I look forward to seeing measurements of the AV10, AV1H, and RZ90.... although all of these will compete in a market segment with plenty of competitors.

The more interesting battle will I think be a notch down, in the sparse, high performance / value zone.... X4800/X6800/RZ70/LX805/Cinema40