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Best bang for the buck subwoofer according to ASR

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#81
Since I'm leaning DIY, how can I make sure I get the right enclosure for my sub? For instance that 10 inch (SDX10 ) looks really good, but what cabinet will work best with it? Does anyone offer a kit or flat pack for this driver? I think I like passive amps so I can change them out when I need to (But then which amp would go well with this? and Could I use this amp to power both subs?)

What are the best performing Dayton kits for the money at the 10, 12 and 15 inch (sealed) variety?
I built 3 of the um15-22 kits from parts express and am extremely pleased with them.
 

NTomokawa

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#82
About the JBL LSR310S associated with a pair of 305MK2, how does the crossover included in the sub work?
Just add both driver outputs? High shelf on the sub?
High shelf on the sub plus low shelf on the monitors?
Try crossing over at 80Hz. Select that on your subwoofer and set the low cut of your speakers to 80Hz too.

I don't see a "real" low cut setting on the 305Mk2 though. My Yamaha HS8S subwoofer has both high cut and low cut settings right on the subwoofer.
 

raistlin65

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#83
I think it would be a huge waste of money to get 2 SVS SB-12 NSD for $800 when the JBL550P is on sale for $189, or $378 for a pair, especially since the JBL is likely equivalent or, more likely, a better sub.
Both subs are equivalent in size and weight. One is a 10" sealed sub. The other is a 12" sealed sub. The SVS has a more powerful amplifier.

According to the specs of JBL and SVS, the SVS extends deeper. And the SB12 has been tested by Josh Ricci and confirmed to be a very good performer for what it is.

If there are extensive independent measurements for the 550P, like there are for the SB12, I'd love to see them. Otherwise, on what metric is the 550P better? Or just a gut feeling???

That being said, I agree that the 550P is a heck of a deal.
 

Bear123

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#84
Both subs are equivalent in size and weight. One is a 10" sealed sub. The other is a 12" sealed sub. The SVS has a more powerful amplifier.

According to the specs of JBL and SVS, the SVS extends deeper. And the SB12 has been tested by Josh Ricci and confirmed to be a very good performer for what it is.

If there are extensive independent measurements for the 550P, like there are for the SB12, I'd love to see them. Otherwise, on what metric is the 550P better? Or just a gut feeling???

That being said, I agree that the 550P is a heck of a deal.
You are correct that this is more of a gut feeling, or perhaps a reasonably educated guess....the SB12 is the lowest(not counting a B&W "sub") output sub ever tested on Data-Bass, so having measurements available doesn't really help its case all that much imo. With that in mind, it's not hard to suppose that what appears to be a higher quality 10" driver from JBL would likely have equivalent if not better output than the very low output SB12. If the price were the same, the SVS would be a safer bet, but at less than half price, I'd have to lean towards the JBL. I do agree the SVS might have lower extension so again if the price were the same I'd lean towards SVS.

Now if primary use were for movies, I wouldn't recommend either unless a very small sub were absolutely required.
 
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NTomokawa

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#86
Dual subwoofers is always the answer.
Gotta save up for another Yamaha HS8S subwoofer. In fact I'd prefer having one subwoofer per channel if I was running surround sound.

In the mean time, has anybody tried Cerwin-Vega's 21" active subwoofer? Too bad Velodyne is no more.
 

raistlin65

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#87
You are correct that this is more of a gut feeling, or perhaps a reasonably educated guess....the SB12 is the lowest(not counting a B&W "sub") output sub ever tested on Data-Bass, so having measurements available doesn't really help its case all that much imo. With that in mind, it's not hard to suppose that what appears to be a higher quality 10" driver from JBL would likely have equivalent if not better output than the very low output SB12. If the price were the same, the SVS would be a safer bet, but at less than half price, I'd have to lean towards the JBL. I do agree the SVS might have lower extension so again if the price were the same I'd lean towards SVS.

Now if primary use were for movies, I wouldn't recommend either unless a very small sub were absolutely required.
This is not Stereophile forums??? This is ASR. Of course, having measurements (or the lack thereof) matters. The measurements show a fairly linear response, not a peaky response like many subs in the <$400 category. It demonstrates that the limiter works well, which prevents overdriving the sub. I also think the THD is good for 30hz and above until the sub is pushed near its limits. It gives us real data on max SPL. And finally, we have Ricci's conclusion, "Despite being a rather small subwoofer the SB12-NSD leverages its Peerless XLS derived driver and 400w amplifier into a respectable performance for a sub of this size." And note that was when it sold for $650.

Meanwhile, an independent review of 550P that includes measurements? :silence:

A "reasonably educated guess" for this forum would indicate you have some data to support your opinion. Otherwise, you are like the guy that comes here and argues that DAC X is better than DAC Y because you think it has a better chip, even though DAC Y has already been measured and evaluated on ASR as being a good performer for the money. It's an untenable claim for an audio science forum without some kind of data to support what you say.

Once again, I do think the 550P is an excellent deal for $189. And it could be a good choice for someone to buy two of them over one SB12-NSD for a dual sub setup. I just have not personally seen any data, nor have you presented any, that would suggest the 550p performs as well or better than the SB12. I would love to see such data. After all, isn't that what ASR is all about?
 

raistlin65

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#88
Dual subwoofers is always the answer.
That's not accurate.

This is accurate: Dual subwoofers, when well-placed, can often provide a smoother frequency response through a wider seating area.

A single subwoofer, when well-placed, can sometimes overcome room modes (might require a little EQ) for the primary listening position. Consequently, a better performing single sub can sometimes be the better choice over two cheaper subs when there is only one listening position.

If using a peaky budget sub, adding another of the same sub cannot overcome issues with useable low-end extension if that is a primary goal (EQ won't help there either), and having a single sub with linear response might be the better compromise.

Dual subs, if poorly placed, may enhance room mode issues and make things sound worse. So if someone just shoves two subs into a room, might not help to have two.
 

jhaider

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#89
the SB12 is the lowest(not counting a B&W "sub") output sub ever tested on Data-Bass, so having measurements available doesn't really help its case all that much imo.
To add some perspective and common sense, by my eyeballs the median subwoofer with test results on Data-Bass has an 18" driver (!) in a 6.2 cubic foot (!!) closed cabinet powered by an eighteen thousand Watt (!!!) amplifier. For most enthusiasts, meeting one of those three conditions on its own is impracticable, never mind all three simultaneously.

So you are not wrong that the SB12 is one of the lowest output subwoofers ever tested on Data-Bass. The Data-Bass site is very impressively put together. You can even sort the measured devices by cabinet volume.

Screen Shot 2019-12-26 at 8.34.10 PM.png


B&W and SVS subwoofers are the smallest closed boxes. Klipsch is a nice example of a compact passive radiator subwoofer: strong motor for high upper bass output supplemented with resonant output down to 25Hz.

Of the sealed subs, SVS mostly outperforms the larger Emotiva unit as well as B&W.

To me the most impressive unit is JL Audio E110, which outperforms several larger subwoofers with bigger drivers from top to bottom.

what appears to be a higher quality 10" driver from JBL
What makes you assume JBL's 10" driver is better than a time-tested 12" Peerless woofer that has seen wide adoption in home and studio subwoofers?

Now if primary use were for movies, I wouldn't recommend either unless a very small sub were absolutely required.
Four of the SVS subs placed around most rooms will provide more headroom than most people will use. Furthermore, there are movies beyond war movies and the comic book universe.
 
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#90
quick (possibly dumb) question - alot of the diy systems or kits specify dsp, whether its built into the plate amp or in the external box (inuke built in dsp in the VBSS for example). If you had dirac built into your pre amp, would any of that be needed? I guess I'm most curious about this because I intend to have 2x passive subs connected via a "dumb" amp (crown XLS or the like) fed by my emotiva xmc-1 and just let the xmc-1 take care of all the dsp stuff. I figured this would save quite a bit of money and I wouldn't be doing "double dsp" (if thats even an issue)
 

DonH56

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#93
Bass management (crossovers) is handled by the AVR or processor; room correction systems will attempt to fit a target curve across the frequency range (including subs, assuming the room correction program can handle the sub range -- most do). An additional (external) DSP provides flexibility to fine-tune the response, particularly when multiple subs are used, but is not a requirement fr a DIY (or any other) sub.
 

sweetchaos

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#94
Does anyone know of where I can find subwoofer CEA2010 measurements (preferably outdoor/ground-plane) of Dayton Audio Sub-1200 (best rated budget sub as per Wirecutter)?

I checked data-bass.com and audioholics's bassaholic, but they didn't review.

I see that Wirecutter posted the CEA2010 measurements, but they are 1m away (not 2m as standard practice) and I believe his measurements were done indoors, not outdoors/ground-plane.

I don't know how much I can accept Wirecutter's CEA2010 measurements, considering tests are done indoors and thus the results will vary with rooms (my assumption is that anywhere up to 6dB was added to his data, so can I trust it?) over the outdoor/ground-plane measurements.
 

trl

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#95
For music only at around $600 each, which sub x2 would you get?

Rythmik L12's
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/L12.html
Or
Tekton 2-10
https://www.tektondesign.com/2-10-sub.html

So far, at $400 each the SVS NSD 12 seem awfully good and are my current front runner. But can't but help wonder if I spend just a bit more if it would be worthwhile (I guess that means noticable in a good way). Should I just be content with the dual SVS?
I think SVS SB2000 are on "outlet" at SVS right now for about 550USD each. Of course, getting their newest dual subs SB2000 PRO for about 750USD each might be even better, if money is not an issue. The bass extension and amplitude are a bit better on the newest PRO version, although any of the above subs is better than NSD 12.

However, the SVS NSD 12's price is unbeatable, so this is definitely best price/perf. ratio for a 12" sub with DSP inside and several measurements and pertinent opinions around the Internet.
 

Willem

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#97
Subwoofers with integrated amp and dsp not only equalize response but also limit to avoid excessive distortion.
 
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Icboschert

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#98
Bass management (crossovers) is handled by the AVR or processor; room correction systems will attempt to fit a target curve across the frequency range (including subs, assuming the room correction program can handle the sub range -- most do). An additional (external) DSP provides flexibility to fine-tune the response, particularly when multiple subs are used, but is not a requirement fr a DIY (or any other) sub.
I understand but the OP was asking if the dumb amp can be left alone and strictly use the AVR for DSP but that may not be true depending on the application. If he ends up with a VBSS or another ported sub and he's pushing 600-800 watts, I'd probably set a HPF to not push the xmax too far near port frequency. Not a problem in a sealed sub obviously. Wouldn't you agree?
 
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#99
On the other hand - it double DSP a bad thing? There are inherently some benefits to using a "kit" (whether its a premade sub package or a PE kit with the amp) as it may require less fiddling than a complete custom route with a dumb amp. For me, I already have Dirac on my processor, and the passive subs are quite a bit cheaper than active ones, so for someone like me, who wants a pretty straight forward "set it and forget it" approach, would a passive sub and dumb amp with the dirac integration work the easiest? Or would I be better off getting something like the SVS pro models and configuring the sub and then running dirac?
 
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I understand but the OP was asking if the dumb amp can be left alone and strictly use the AVR for DSP but that may not be true depending on the application. If he ends up with a VBSS or another ported sub and he's pushing 600-800 watts, I'd probably set a HPF to not push the xmax too far near port frequency. Not a problem in a sealed sub obviously. Wouldn't you agree?
My 3 subs are sealed but I believe that you are right. With ported subs you want to set a hpf so that you dont go too low and fry the driver. Crown and inuke will let you set the filter and you can use AVR room correction to DSP the subs and integrate with the mains.
 
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