Best Bang for the Buck DAC / Do it all DAC

[simplywyn]

As technology advances, we consumers sometimes forget that we don't really need that $1,299 Topping D90 III when a comparable D90 experience, which we’ve enjoyed for several years, is available for $399. While browsing the forum, it seems we're nearing 120 dB SINAD on $300 DACs, and a similar trend is evident with amplifiers.


Just like ten years ago, I spent $8,000 on a dual CPU (quad-core) Mac Pro with liquid cooling, and now my iPhone is five times faster for just $899. What would be the equivalent in the audio world?


Marketing will undoubtedly urge consumers to buy the latest and greatest, pushing 8 cores of "sound" for the same price of $899, when in reality, most of us can't hear the difference beyond $199.


So, my question to this community, with all our experience, is: what is the best bang for the buck DAC and amp for speakers and headphones?

 

[DVDdoug]

Do it all DAC

What is "all" for you?

It seems like the Apple USB Dongle is better than human hearing so you can't beat it for "sound quality"

I've only heard a defect (or difference) with a "DAC" once, and it was a noisy soundcard that made noise when the hard drive was accessed. I've never owned a stand-alone DAC, or had the desire for one. I never heard anything wrong with the DAC built-into my 1st CD player 40 years ago.

​

 

[oleg87]

SMSL has quite a few models (frankly, a slightly overwhelming number) that have most features you might need (except, notably, built in EQ) that are priced very aggressively, though I've never owned their stuff and can't speak to the quality of the overall product.

 

[JIW]

As technology advances, we consumers sometimes forget that we don't really need that $1,299 Topping D90 III when a comparable D90 experience, which we’ve enjoyed for several years, is available for $399. While browsing the forum, it seems we're nearing 120 dB SINAD on $300 DACs, and a similar trend is evident with amplifiers.


Just like ten years ago, I spent $8,000 on a dual CPU (quad-core) Mac Pro with liquid cooling, and now my iPhone is five times faster for just $899. What would be the equivalent in the audio world?


Marketing will undoubtedly urge consumers to buy the latest and greatest, pushing 8 cores of "sound" for the same price of $899, when in reality, most of us can't hear the difference beyond $199.


So, my question to this community, with all our experience, is: what is the best bang for the buck DAC and amp for speakers and headphones?

There are DACs with 120 dB SINAD that cost less than $200 such as the SMSL D-6s and the DL200 which even comes with a very good headphone amplifier and both have balanced line outs. At $89.99, the SMSL PS200 has a SINAD of 118 dB.

There are few DACs with both headphone and speaker amplifiers that perform as well as those without speaker amplifiers. Those devices seem to be amplifiers first with the DAC only good enough for the amp but nothing special and the headphone output more an afterthought. For DACs with headphone amplifiers, there are several well performing devices around $200-300. Still, for the most performance in terms of power at least, separate headphone amplifiers still have the edge. Overall, separating the speaker amplifier from DAC and headphone amp is likely the more cost-effective option.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I guess the magic DAC is streamer, USB with sub output, volume control and would include PEQ. Some get pretty close to this. Might be one I've not seen that does all of this. SMSL has some that are all except PEQ or room correction. miniDSP has some that are everything including Dirac Live, but no direct streamer. A streamer is probably the cheapest thing to add. The Flex HT is $599. Does HMDI input too along with WISA for wireless.

 

[Audionaut]

I guess the magic DAC is streamer, USB with sub output, volume control and would include PEQ.

WiiM Ultra?

 

[El Cheapo]

Best bang for the buck: SMSL M300SE (USD 129) , unless you need HDMI Arc or BT LDAC, in which case SMSL DL100 (USD 179).
If you just need USB input, apple usb-c dongle (USD 9) or a CS43131 dongle (USD 20 and up).

 

[Ropeburn]

As others have said, what is "do it all"? Depends on your needs.

Personally I got an SMSL DO100 (120dB SINAD) that has all inputs I need, including LDAC blutoof, plus digitally implemented (=perfect) volume control and remote, so it works as a convenient preamp for my basic Hypex poweramp. Last year when it was discontinued, for 120€ new. Regular price 200 before that.

If you don't need more functionality, this is a good as it gets: state of the art quality for pennies. If you want more, like HDMI ARC, it's 200 moneys. Anything above that is just the price you pay for branding, licenses (sometimes obsolete ones like MQA), and fancy but ultimately useless things such as case build quality.

 

[JIW]

Best bang for the buck: SMSL M300SE (USD 129) , unless you need HDMI Arc, in which case SMSL DL100 (USD 179)

The M300SE has a rather poor headphone amplifier with an output of only 2.1 V.

 

[Bernd]

Qudelix 5K ?

 

[JeremyFife]

Impossible question to answer, so open ended and open to interpretation ...

Obviously I'll have a go through I'd say the it's the cheapest point for audible transparency. Everything 'better' is more about features and personal preference

... back to the Apple dongle then

(Doesn't work for speakers, I'll leave that one)

 

[simplywyn]

I'm looking for a DAC with a 12V trigger out (to control my speaker amps) that is completely audibly transparent and features a volume knob and USB input, all at the best bang for your buck possible.


Things to note: if it's 50% better for a 10% price increase, that's a huge benefit. However, if it's 50% more expensive for only a 2% improvement, then that's just pointless.

 

[JIW]

I'm looking for a DAC with a 12V trigger out (to control my speaker amps) that is completely audibly transparent and features a volume knob and USB input, all at the best bang for your buck possible.


Things to note: if it's 50% better for a 10% price increase, that's a huge benefit. However, if it's 50% more expensive for only a 2% improvement, then that's just pointless.

Consider the Fosi ZD3 at $180 or the Topping E70 at $280.

Edit: E70 is currently $242.73 on Apos.

 

[Mort]

There are many, many features on my hypothetical 'do it all DAC'. My closest is a MiniDsp HTx - but it's big, expensive and still misses things (headphone amp, LDAC, digital out).

Readers of sufficient age will remember this:

 

[Roland68]

As technology advances, we consumers sometimes forget that we don't really need that $1,299 Topping D90 III when a comparable D90 experience, which we’ve enjoyed for several years, is available for $399. While browsing the forum, it seems we're nearing 120 dB SINAD on $300 DACs, and a similar trend is evident with amplifiers.


Just like ten years ago, I spent $8,000 on a dual CPU (quad-core) Mac Pro with liquid cooling, and now my iPhone is five times faster for just $899. What would be the equivalent in the audio world?


Marketing will undoubtedly urge consumers to buy the latest and greatest, pushing 8 cores of "sound" for the same price of $899, when in reality, most of us can't hear the difference beyond $199.


So, my question to this community, with all our experience, is: what is the best bang for the buck DAC and amp for speakers and headphones?

For me the decision is currently quite simple: balanced DAC with ES9039MS Pro chip and 4.4 watt balanced HPA with 1a test and SINAD of 123.2, i.e. 0.6 away from the top.

LOXJIE D40 Pro DAC with ES 9039MS Pro Chip €319.99 on Amazon.de, used for €287.99.
This is currently the best price for a combo device with the ESS Flagchip DAC and a real balanced headphone amplifier with 4.4 watts at 33 ohms and 554 milliwatts at 300 ohms. Technically identical to Loxjie D60, SMSL DL400, DO400. Simpler display, but easy operation via the buttons on the front is an advantage, especially on the desktop.
One of the best-tested DACs on ASR (Loxjie D40 Pro DAC & HP Amp Review).

 

[JIW]

For me the decision is currently quite simple: balanced DAC with ES9039MS Pro chip and 4.4 watt balanced HPA with 1a test and SINAD of 123.2, i.e. 0.6 away from the top.

LOXJIE D40 Pro DAC with ES 9039MS Pro Chip €319.99 on Amazon.de, used for €287.99.
This is currently the best price for a combo device with the ESS Flagchip DAC and a real balanced headphone amplifier with 4.4 watts at 33 ohms and 554 milliwatts at 300 ohms. Technically identical to Loxjie D60, SMSL DL400, DO400. Simpler display, but easy operation via the buttons on the front is an advantage, especially on the desktop.
One of the best-tested DACs on ASR (Loxjie D40 Pro DAC & HP Amp Review).

The single ended headphone amplifier may not be so good though.

vs. Balanced 4.4 mm

Source.

Edit. For reference, here is the D-6s, DO100 Pro and RAW MDA1 from the same site. No apparent issue with single ended measurements.

 

[Ropeburn]

There are many, many features on my hypothetical 'do it all DAC'. My closest is a MiniDsp HTx - but it's big, expensive and still misses things (headphone amp, LDAC, digital out).

Readers of sufficient age will remember this:

View attachment 436767

That's what we all want, meanwhile we have to make do with this:

 

[Roland68]

The single ended headphone amplifier may not be so good though.
View attachment 436772
View attachment 436771
View attachment 436773

vs. Balanced 4.4 mm
View attachment 436774
View attachment 436775
Source.

Edit. For reference, here is the D-6s, DO100 Pro and RAW MDA1 from the same site. No apparent issue with single ended measurements.

You have to keep things in perspective here.
We had to listen very carefully with several people in a blind test to distinguish the nuances in SE mode against an L30 II and an L70.
There are many worse HPAs out there.
As a balanced HPA, it can compete with many dedicated HPAs in its price range and above. And that's at a price and with measurements that are already really good even without an HPA.

We also couldn't clearly distinguish it from this, the DO400, the SU-10, or the SU-X; only as a DAC with external L70 and SA-1.

 

[JIW]

You have to keep things in perspective here.
We had to listen very carefully with several people in a blind test to distinguish the nuances in SE mode against an L30 II and an L70.
There are many worse HPAs out there.
As a balanced HPA, it can compete with many dedicated HPAs in its price range and above. And that's at a price and with measurements that are already really good even without an HPA.

We also couldn't clearly distinguish it from this, the DO400, the SU-10, or the SU-X; only as a DAC with external L70 and SA-1.

As a DAC, it is excellent and so is the balanced headphone output. But for single ended DAC/headphone amplifiers, there are better options for less money such as the DL200 or RAW MDA1.

 

[simplywyn]

As a DAC, it is excellent and so is the balanced headphone output. But for single ended DAC/headphone amplifiers, there are better options for less money such as the DL200 or RAW MDA1.

Loxjie broke on me, so I'm not really interested in it.