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Bang for your buck king in the budget space?

Well, when I get the JM20, I'll have my wife set it up for a blind test and I'll see if I hear a difference. Many people do, pretty much everyone, I think maybe even some of you though you deny it. I'm not sure discounting their experience is entirely scientific either. Perhaps there are properties of signals that we are not measuring which affect the sound.
 
Digital audio isn't magic, and there are no such magical properties that only expensive gear can decode.

Decoding of digital audio is essentially a solved problem, and since many years at that. At the same time however, some implementations are still flawed. Motherboard audio in PCs often fall under the flawed category, with the main issue often being so-so isolation from the electrical noise from the rest of the PC. The resulting noise could very well be heard in affected gear.

In practice a correctly implemented DAC is unlikely to sound significantly different from other correct DACs, but there can be differences in features, output levels and reconstruction filters. Under pathological test conditions, it's possible for some to hear the difference of different reconstruction filters but under regular listening conditions the point is moot for most. Personally I can't hear the difference between my DACs at home, which include some expensive ones as well as some cheap ones.

If you do set up a blind test at home, make sure to do it properly because we really do hear what we want to hear.
 
I received the A20h, it sounds really good but I gotta admit - I was expecting more power. That or the XS need a lot more power then people think. On low gain they don't get nearly loud enough. On medium gain you have to go to max volume to get to a fun, loud "crankin' it" listening level. On high gain you get to that level at about -20ish db. So really very little room left and I don't think it sounds quite as good on high gain but more comparing is needed.

I'm definitely glad I didn't go with a weaker amp. If this is barely handling these than those would have all been disappointing.
 
I received the A20h, it sounds really good but I gotta admit - I was expecting more power. That or the XS need a lot more power then people think. On low gain they don't get nearly loud enough. On medium gain you have to go to max volume to get to a fun, loud "crankin' it" listening level. On high gain you get to that level at about -20ish db. So really very little room left and I don't think it sounds quite as good on high gain but more comparing is needed.

I'm definitely glad I didn't go with a weaker amp. If this is barely handling these than those would have all been disappointing.
"these low-sensitivity headphones don't get loud enough on a mode specifically designed for sensitive headphones" is a criticism I can't wait to never read again
 
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"these low-sensitivity headphones don't get loud enough on a mode specifically designed for sensitive headphones" is a criticism I can't wait to never read again
I was just going by how "easy to drive"everyone seems to say the XS are. I would think ideally you would want to keep gain as low as possible to reduce noise. Sounds like you haven't had a hug yet today.
 
I was just going by how "easy to drive"everyone seems to say the XS are. I would think ideally you would want to keep gain as low as possible to reduce noise. Sounds like you haven't had a hug yet today.
It's not exceptionally hard to drive as far as over-ear open backs go (though between its low-ish efficiency and low impedance, not among the easy ones either), but a relatively sensitive IEM could be 20-30dB+ louder at the same volume setting. A well-designed amp has to accommodate that.
 
I received the A20h, it sounds really good but I gotta admit - I was expecting more power. That or the XS need a lot more power then people think. On low gain they don't get nearly loud enough. On medium gain you have to go to max volume to get to a fun, loud "crankin' it" listening level. On high gain you get to that level at about -20ish db. So really very little room left and I don't think it sounds quite as good on high gain but more comparing is needed.

I'm definitely glad I didn't go with a weaker amp. If this is barely handling these than those would have all been disappointing.
Take in account that with A20h low gain is 0 db (no gain, for high sensitive headphones and iems), mid is +6 db and high is +15 db, so clearly low gain is not really suited for Edition XS.
Are you driving tha A20h directly from the motherboard audio output? Integrated audio most likely can't output much more than 1 Vrms, so it can explain why you have to max out the amp at mid gain.
If the level you can get at high gain in this condition is enough you can go on, non penalties using high gain with you headphones.
If you want to get still more volume getting a cheap dac like the JM20 that can send standard 2V to the A20h could already give you noticeable increment.
If you are already driving the A20h with the JM20 then there is the option of a balanced cable for the Edition XS.
 
Many people do, pretty much everyone, I think maybe even some of you though you deny it.
Almost everyone (including professionals) hears a difference if they expect to hear one! Amir talks about it sometimes in reviews, even.

The problem is, it's very hard to tell if small heard differences are real (in the sense of originating with the gear) or not. This is why measurements are key.

Perhaps there are properties of signals that we are not measuring which affect the sound.
The answer to this ranges from not really, to definitely not, depending on how you look at it.

When it comes to speakers and headphones, there are plenty of nonlinearities and physical (room, ears) interactions to think about that may not be easy to capture in standard measurements, but people still try.

When it comes to signals, the entire signal is captured during the measurement process. In a real sense, measurements are just a specific type of audio recording. And if it's not in the recording, where is it?

If you have a glass of water, you don't need to wonder if something important about the water is contained outside of the glass. The water is the water, there isn't some unknown meta-water you need to hunt down. If the water tastes different to you, it's either in the water or in your head, there is no third option.

Amir's measurements sum up the most important attributes of the gear fairly concisely, but we do not need to settle for that. We can show differences exhaustively.

You can use Deltawave by @pkane to directly compare two full recordings and see everything that changes from one to the other.

@manisandher did a series of such tests recently.
 
I've got a suggestion; there's a recent review and accompanying thread about the 7Hz x Crinacle Zero 2 IEMs, inner ear monitors that go for around $25. I got a pair last week. These are on the really low end of the power requirements for headphones, also have a very full and accurate bass response. I've been listening to music via these earbuds a lot since they showed up last Friday and am very impressed with their performance. I've got a tiny DAP (Digital Audio Player) with low output power - 25mW(32Ω /THD+N<1%). Hardly anything, but it's more than enough for the 7Hz x Crinacle Zero 2 IEMs. The DAP has an EQ adjustment, I raise the upper octaves slightly. Among playback transducers this IEM is a bang for your buck king.

 
I have some initial impression of the A20h, I'm sure you're all dying to hear my n00b take on it.

For the most part I really like it. The sound is great (technical term), no audible hiss or buzz. It drives the XS's quite well, they are very punchy and there is great bass extension. The stage is very wide and airy, imaging and separation are also very good. Though I'm sure much of this is more of a property of the headphones and not the amp which you will lecture me on. I have not heard any pops or noise from changing volume or any other settings. For every db of volume change it makes a click which is kind of neat.

I do have a couple complaints. I'm not sure if this is just me unit but the volume knob has a fair bit of wiggle in between detents. The volume does not adjust with each detent but every 2-3 detents, which I'm not a fan of. The remote is quite cheap feeling, just a re-purposed android box remote and not a great one either. The whopping 7 day warranty stipulated in the manual doesn't inspire much confidence .

While I have you, definitely a scam, right?
 
I have some initial impression of the A20h, I'm sure you're all dying to hear my n00b take on it.

For the most part I really like it. The sound is great (technical term), no audible hiss or buzz. It drives the XS's quite well, they are very punchy and there is great bass extension. The stage is very wide and airy, imaging and separation are also very good. Though I'm sure much of this is more of a property of the headphones and not the amp which you will lecture me on. I have not heard any pops or noise from changing volume or any other settings. For every db of volume change it makes a click which is kind of neat.

I do have a couple complaints. I'm not sure if this is just me unit but the volume knob has a fair bit of wiggle in between detents. The volume does not adjust with each detent but every 2-3 detents, which I'm not a fan of. The remote is quite cheap feeling, just a re-purposed android box remote and not a great one either. The whopping 7 day warranty stipulated in the manual doesn't inspire much confidence .

While I have you, definitely a scam, right?
Hmm, price is randomly about half of what other Ali sellers are, so probably fake/scam yeah. I wouldn't buy it.
 
Hmm, price is randomly about half of what other Ali sellers are, so probably fake/scam yeah. I wouldn't buy it.
I think so too, seller is brand new, no reviews. It says 730 available, seems like a lot. I don't have a ton of experience with Ali so I'm not sure how good they are at refunding you if you get scammed.
 
I think so too, seller is brand new, no reviews. It says 730 available, seems like a lot.
Surprising they would allow the listing. 10+ years ago when I started out selling on ebay, they wouldn't let me list more than like $100K in inventory at once, because it's a hallmark of scammers to sell a bunch of units (that they don't have) at a hot price and then disappear.

Whether Ali is good at refunding or not, it's always easier not to get scammed in the first place. :)
 
I have some initial impression of the A20h, I'm sure you're all dying to hear my n00b take on it.

For the most part I really like it. The sound is great (technical term), no audible hiss or buzz. It drives the XS's quite well, they are very punchy and there is great bass extension. The stage is very wide and airy, imaging and separation are also very good. Though I'm sure much of this is more of a property of the headphones and not the amp which you will lecture me on. I have not heard any pops or noise from changing volume or any other settings. For every db of volume change it makes a click which is kind of neat.

I do have a couple complaints. I'm not sure if this is just me unit but the volume knob has a fair bit of wiggle in between detents. The volume does not adjust with each detent but every 2-3 detents, which I'm not a fan of. The remote is quite cheap feeling, just a re-purposed android box remote and not a great one either. The whopping 7 day warranty stipulated in the manual doesn't inspire much confidence .

While I have you, definitely a scam, right?
The volume pot behavior is fine and as intended, i had the same question about my A10h:

https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...review-headphone-amplifier.25699/post-1499504
 
Surprising they would allow the listing. 10+ years ago when I started out selling on ebay, they wouldn't let me list more than like $100K in inventory at once, because it's a hallmark of scammers to sell a bunch of units (that they don't have) at a hot price and then disappear.

Whether Ali is good at refunding or not, it's always easier not to get scammed in the first place. :)
You're definitely right, it sure is tempting though.

You do online resale? That's awesome, I've been wanting to get into it myself. Since my eyes making money hasn't been great and I've thought online resale could be good. But I don't have a ton of money to risk and I don't know how to break through into doing it without messing it up.
 
The volume pot behavior is fine and as intended, i had the same question about my A10h:

https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...review-headphone-amplifier.25699/post-1499504
That's good to know, thank you! I wasn't really sure if mine had a problem or not. Amazon shipped it without a box in just the product packaging which wasn't even taped shut. Everything could easily fall out of it and the box just flips open. It had to come here from the US so I'd be shocked if it hasn't been dropped a few times.
 
You're definitely right, it sure is tempting though.

You do online resale? That's awesome, I've been wanting to get into it myself. Since my eyes making money hasn't been great and I've thought online resale could be good. But I don't have a ton of money to risk and I don't know how to break through into doing it without messing it up.
I used to import acoustic foam and sell it on eBay / Amazon as a small business. I also worked in ecommerce in a few other businesses. These days it's a pretty challenging way to make money, there's just a lot of competition and most of them will undercut you.

10-15 years ago China was not on American marketplaces, so you only had to worry about domestic competition. Today, the factories where you used to source things to sell are simply selling direct to consumer in the US. It is radically difficult to compete with them because they price so low.

If you want to make money selling online, find a product you can sell with at least 70% gross margin. After fees, shipping, taxes and ads, you will be lucky to come away with much for yourself. Selling on marketplaces successfully requires two things IME: Absolutely obsessive SEO (marketplace SEO specifically) and very rigorous unit economics. You also need to be ready to walk away from any given product once China or Amazon decides to undercut you beyond all reason.

Selling successfully off of marketplaces (your own site) is harder in many ways because you have to find customers yourself, although you save a lot in fees. These days that often involves a large social media following, lots of ads, good SEO, or a combination thereof.

If you don't have a lot of money to risk doing it, your only option is to find a high margin product with a low MOQ. Don't tell anyone if you do, they'll be on it like flies on... you know. There are lots of people with the same thought you have, doing the same thing.
 
I used to import acoustic foam and sell it on eBay / Amazon as a small business. I also worked in ecommerce in a few other businesses. These days it's a pretty challenging way to make money, there's just a lot of competition and most of them will undercut you.

10-15 years ago China was not on American marketplaces, so you only had to worry about domestic competition. Today, the factories where you used to source things to sell are simply selling direct to consumer in the US. It is radically difficult to compete with them because they price so low.

If you want to make money selling online, find a product you can sell with at least 70% gross margin. After fees, shipping, taxes and ads, you will be lucky to come away with much for yourself. Selling on marketplaces successfully requires two things IME: Absolutely obsessive SEO (marketplace SEO specifically) and very rigorous unit economics. You also need to be ready to walk away from any given product once China or Amazon decides to undercut you beyond all reason.

Selling successfully off of marketplaces (your own site) is harder in many ways because you have to find customers yourself, although you save a lot in fees. These days that often involves a large social media following, lots of ads, good SEO, or a combination thereof.

If you don't have a lot of money to risk doing it, your only option is to find a high margin product with a low MOQ. Don't tell anyone if you do, they'll be on it like flies on... you know. There are lots of people with the same thought you have, doing the same thing.
Thank you for your candor, I appreciate the advice. I've read a lot about how Amazon forces out independent sellers on popular items. I've also seen a lot of Chinese based sellers on our marketplaces. Constantly finding a poorly represented desirable item seems like it would be hard to sustain. If you've got enough money I Guess taking the occasional loss isn't that big of a deal but when you're starting out I imagine it's make or break.

I'm at a loss. I live in a small town, can't drive, finding something profitable to do from home is proving difficult. But I fear we've strayed off topic.

Amp is still awesome, really enjoying these headphones. Really tempted to order this SU-1 which is probably a scam lol
 
finding something profitable to do from home is proving difficult.
If I were trying to do a WFH startup type thing, if it were for physical products I might look into 3D printing or laser cutting stuff. Unique stuff where you don't have to buy inventory. Gun parts in particular seems like a popular niche that (while controversial) is not threatened by Chinese Amazon sellers at the moment. You can get started printing functional 3D parts (for guns or otherwise) for less than $1K.

That said, physical products are not the only way to make money, I hear you can make a quick stack or three creating memecoins. AI spam is a growing niche, too. :shrug:
 
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