Or use a 3-way design…
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AV123 X-CS Encore Center Speaker Review
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
Yep, any speaker with good horizontal directivity. (or you're making a different point other than the fact I just mentioned 2-way?)
Good point. It has always been an issue, no matter the display type. I think it is a better to consider the display install before picking speakers. With some consideration you can simply avoid the need for a horizontal center speaker. Either go with a AT screen and place your vertically oriented speakers behind it, or raise the display a bit to fit 3 good bookshelf speakers or small floorstanders under it. Or with 2 good speakers and just a couple listeners, no center at all might work just fine for some.
Nothing here that commands a $1000 price tag. 
Usual GR repackaged old parts and design that is readily bested by name brand center channel speakers.
Usual GR repackaged old parts and design that is readily bested by name brand center channel speakers.
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beagleman
Major Contributor
This 20 Year old Polk Center (LsiC 2.5 way) works just great as a center in all ways.
I've got two R700 paired with one of the L400 works quite nice.Many of the 3-way designs are quite good.
The Polk L400 comes to mind as a well reviewed unit. I personally don't know if I want that line of speakers but many really like the L400 paired with the other Legend stuff or maybe paired with the Reserve line as they are noted for having very similar tonality(the reserve centers are not like the legend, they are 2 ways)
Here is the L400 a 'Wt/mW'
Heavy @40.8lbs
Can be had refurbished or new on discount from a motivated seller for the price of the finished 'X-CS Encore'
Polk Audio Legend L200 Bookshelf and L400 Center Speaker Review
The L200 are Polk's latest high-end bookshelf speaker, and the L400 is the Legend center speaker. Both boast many of the state-of-the-art advances. Check out our detailed review of both here.www.audioholics.com
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You can give measurements to the world, sadly lack of knowledge in interpretation happens.
Cheaper and quicker. Marketing often likes to say that their engineering team did hundreds of hours of measurements and other magic, all of this is BS by a simple fact that people on diyaudio forum do better with 1/10 the resources. The driving factor is cost, avarge customer doesn't give a damn about proper design because he doesn't know what even constitutes good design.
If I remember correctly, the difference between the Original X-series and the subsequent Encore ones was the tweeter used.
That new "Encore" tweeter was used in a whole line of products, included X-LS, X-CS, X-Voce, X-Statik etc. At least in the AV123 days.
dasdoing
Major Contributor
I am totaly aware of the reason for the horizontal design. I just wondered why no better solutions have been found/propoused. You could use 2 full range drivers (it's only for dialog, right?) for example, one below and one above the screen. this way you also have perfect vertical phantom center.
No, the center is much much more than dialogue. It is a very large percentage of dialogue of course but sometimes dialogue can pan across an area or even surrounds/atmos layer. In addition to the dialogue a high percentage of all content is played through the center as it anchors the action to the screen. Definitely not just dialogue. A simple test is to unplug all the other speakers during playback of 5.1 material.
restorer-john
Grand Contributor
That proves nothing. Unplug the centre, switch the system to phantom centre and see if you notice. If you have decent mains, you won't miss it.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #33
There are three reasons in my opinion why they have become the standard:
1. It increases the power capability of the center speaker relative to single woofer speaker. Center speaker in movies is the most active so having it handle more power is a good thing.
2. It is a marketing genius!
It looks fantastic to anyone in its symmetrical configuration. Last year there was an interview with Polk designers (?) where they were asked why they did an MTM configuration knowing it would not work well as a center speaker. Their answer? Marketing said to build one!3. Solving their issue with addition of a mid-range costs money which makes the product non-competitive against the 2-way ones.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #34
I have done that. Unless you turn on downmixing to the FL & FR, you hardly hear anything out of remaining speakers.
ROOSKIE
Major Contributor
Also it is the only way to make the speaker's height very short, however in those units the compromise makes more sense since at least that criteria has value to some people.There are three reasons in my opinion why they have become the standard:
1. It increases the power capability of the center speaker relative to single woofer speaker. Center speaker in movies is the most active so having it handle more power is a good thing.
2. It is a marketing genius!
3. Solving their issue with addition of a mid-range costs money which makes the product non-competitive against the 2-way ones.
If it going to be tall enough that a midrange will fit then I wish that always happened.
Just too many people have absolutely no idea that it is an issue to go with the horizontal WTW.
I think with the drivers spread that far apart you would get pretty bad comb filtering and double all of the issue that plague horizontal designs even though in what you describe they are vertical in a technical sense. The sweet spot left to right might be okay but vertically it would be bizarrely small. Not mention diagonals.
beagleman
Major Contributor
Here is something I have never seen truly addressed...........
I have used MTM, 3 way and 2.5 Way centers, found the 3 way and 2.5 way both seem to work great IMHO.....
We all get a 3 way center is the "most" ideal set up, but beyond cost, are there ANY disadvantages to this design?
I have used MTM, 3 way and 2.5 Way centers, found the 3 way and 2.5 way both seem to work great IMHO.....
We all get a 3 way center is the "most" ideal set up, but beyond cost, are there ANY disadvantages to this design?
OP
- Thread Starter
- #37
It is harder to design a good 3-way so I would look at the measurements before automatically deciding. The 2.5-way ones I have tested have had a mess where the port and most of the drivers are active.
As Amir already pointed out… take 5.1 content, decode it so it is outputting 5.1, and disconnect all speakers except the center. The center does a ton. Depending on the movie, the L/R as well as the other channels, depending on the type of movie and mix can also play at high SPL as well… but the center is critical. Downmixing to stereo can and does sound fine for some and that is fine. But it doesn’t compare to what a good multichannel mix can bring for movies IMO.
respice finem
Major Contributor
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- Feb 1, 2021
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A coaxial Genelec placed horizontally as a center speaker might work well, but are not in this price class.There are three reasons in my opinion why they have become the standard:
1. It increases the power capability of the center speaker relative to single woofer speaker. Center speaker in movies is the most active so having it handle more power is a good thing.
2. It is a marketing genius!
3. Solving their issue with addition of a mid-range costs money which makes the product non-competitive against the 2-way ones.
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This is a weird one, because for all the flaws in 2.5-way center channels, this one is performing reasonably well. I don't understand the "difficulty to EQ" It seems relatively flat on-axis where the directivity errors are. Only the woofer seems to need strong correction. The value is there, as well. This is a pretty bad MTM, but a decent center. It would be better as a 3-way like most wide designs, but the judgement on some of these speakers seems suspect to say the least.
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