Choosing DIY kit

[MT_bassbone]

I am looking to try building a DIY kit. I am looking for a kit that will not require a subwoofer. I am looking at the following kits:

• Parts Express Amiga
• CSS Audio Torii P2
• CSS Audio Torii S4
• CSS Audio TD1-X (not sure about which crossover)
• Neil Blanchard Designs MLTL-6
• GR Research X-MTM Encore

There is a bit of a price difference between the Amigas and the rest of the list but it seems like they are generally a well liked speaker. Here is there expected FR:

I don't have a FR for the CSS Audio Torii speakers. However, I have most of the speakers I have liked in the past have had woven woofers so this is partly why I am interested.

The CSS Audio 1TD-X was previously reviewed by ASR with a recommendation from Amir.

The Neil Blanchard Designs MLTL-6 seems to be well liked but the frequency response is kind of choppy:

The GR Research X-MTM Encore has what looks to be a good FR:

The rest of my system is:

Topping PA7+
Wiim Ultra
Pro-ject DS2 CD Box

I also am wondering if I should put a limit on how much I spend given the modest components of my system. I would love to hear everyone's opinion.

 

[Ktacos]

I have the Amiga, they can be happily used without a sub and have quite low extension.

 

[TurtlePaul]

Be careful, the difference between a speaker that looks like it has a smooth frequency response vs. a choppy frequency response is often just if the designer chooses to present data with 1/3 octave smoothing or 1/12 smoothing. If you have room EQ wizard, it is shocking how you can make a single measurement look as smooth or choppy as you want based on smoothing and aspect ratio.

The problem with DIY speakers is that there are rarely spinorama quality data for them. Amir has tested the CSS Criterion 1TD-X and they are pretty good but not great. The Audio First Fidelia is one of the best measuring DIY speakers that has been measured by a Klippel system. I wouldn't bother with a system with no spinorama data because the directivity index and predicted in-room response seem to be about as important for sound quality as the on-axis measurement.

 

[MT_bassbone]

The Audio First Fidelia is one of the best measuring DIY speakers

I want to have a speaker I can use without subs. I have never been able to find a sub I can adjust to my liking

 

[No. 5]

The Neil Blanchard Designs MLTL-6 seems to be well liked but the frequency response is kind of choppy:
View attachment 423702

Just a comment on the posted data for the MLTL-6: I can almost guarantee you that's an in room measurement, and as such, that choppiness is the room and not the speaker. The note says 1/24 octave smoothed... but that doesn't look like 1/24 smoothing.

I'm not saying yes or no on that speaker, just that I probably wouldn't rely too much on that particular piece of data.

 

[Ktacos]

I want to have a speaker I can use without subs. I have never been able to find a sub I can adjust to my liking

Do you use EQ?

 

[MT_bassbone]

Do you use EQ?

Yes

 

[Ktacos]

Yes

OK, do you use it well? Any in room data?

 

[MT_bassbone]

OK, do you use it well? Any in room data?

Not sure about well. Here are the results from the room correction on the Wiim Ultra.

I didn't like it so I turned on the graphic EQ and adjusted manually.

I currently have a set of early Totem Sttaf speakers and they are ok but they measure poorly. Looking for a better speaker.

I do not have any room treatments. It about a 12x12 room with carpet and drywall. I put the couch in the middle of the room for a better seated position.

 

[Ktacos]

Not sure about well. Here are the results from the room correction on the Wiim Ultra.

View attachment 423723

I didn't like it so I turned on the graphic EQ and adjusted manually.


View attachment 423724

I currently have a set of early Totem Sttaf speakers and they are ok but they measure poorly. Looking for a better speaker.

I do not have any room treatments. It about a 12x12 room with carpet and drywall. I put the couch in the middle of the room for a better seated position.

I assume those are the filter tasks not the final response, so It's hard to say but I'm gonna say no on the well done EQ. Very easy to make things worse with EQ.

The +10db at 60hz is kinda of wild, shouldn't need a boost like that for bass. I think you need to just take some researching doing a better job on the EQ side of things which we can definitely help you out with. I think after that you may very well be happy with your bass. I think you'd find as well that just having some speakers with plenty of low end wouldn't really solve your problem either, bass response is all down to the room and whatever you put in there is going to have similar issues and still need EQ.

The upper range on the correction is also a little wild. I can see why you wouldn't be happy with that corrective EQ.

Let us know if you'd like some help on that.

 

[MT_bassbone]

Let us know if you'd like some help on that.

sure

 

[TurtlePaul]

It looks like the Wiim tried to EQ speakers that can’t do 40 hz to achieve 40 hz. +12 dB at 42 hz is 16x the power.

 

[MT_bassbone]

It looks like the Wiim tried to EQ speakers that can’t do 40 hz to achieve 40 hz. +12 dB at 42 hz is 16x the power.

Is that something I did or the machine did on its own? Is there a different setting to try?

 

[MT_bassbone]

Just a comment on the posted data for the MLTL-6: I can almost guarantee you that's an in room measurement, and as such, that choppiness is the room and not the speaker. The note says 1/24 octave smoothed... but that doesn't look like 1/24 smoothing.

I'm not saying yes or no on that speaker, just that I probably wouldn't rely too much on that particular piece of data.

Here is from the Neil Blanchard Designs website:

It just looked too stretched out to look accurate so another member adjusted the aspect ratio.

 

[RickS]

All of your candidates are older designs. The CSS 1TD has better quality drivers than any of the others. If you are using a subwoofer, not sure why larger boxes like Amigas, MLTL-6 or X-MTM are on your list. EDIT:misread part about subwoofer use. If you want to truly forgo a subwoofer, most of these will not suffice.

The Mechano23 in our DIY area is arguably a better design. See our DIY forum for more details.

 

[Doenerkunde]

I am looking to try building a DIY kit. I am looking for a kit that will not require a subwoofer. I am looking at the following kits:

• Parts Express Amiga
• CSS Audio Torii P2
• CSS Audio Torii S4
• CSS Audio TD1-X (not sure about which crossover)
• Neil Blanchard Designs MLTL-6
• GR Research X-MTM Encore

Are you limited to kits for which MDF knock-down flatpack cabinets are available?

If not maybe take a look at the designs from Heissmann Acoustics. Their focus on even off axis directivity makes them very appealing to the ASR crowd.
I would take a look at their big bookshelfs and floorstanders with the Seas DXT tweeter: https://heissmann-acoustics.de/en/

Their homepage contains some interesting articles in the "Basics" section. In one article they measure one of their designs against a Neumann KH120. Another very good article covers edge diffraction and directivity.

Take the DXT-Mon 182 bookshelf design for example:

 

[MT_bassbone]

Are you limited to kits for which MDF knock-down flatpack cabinets are available?

I probably should have mentioned that up front but yes I am trying to stick with designs with a flat pack as this is my first speaker build. Maybe I just need to jump in and try to make my own cabinet.

 

[MT_bassbone]

If you want to truly forgo a subwoofer, most of these will not suffice.

The Mechano23 in our DIY area is arguably a better design. See our DIY forum for more details.

Do you have other recommendations. The Mechano23 frequency response does not go low enough, right? I was hoping to get at least into the mid 30 hz range.

 

[RickS]

Do you have other recommendations. The Mechano23 frequency response does not go low enough, right? I was hoping to get at least into the mid 30 hz range.

If medium to large room, would suggest something more like Bagby's Solstice. Some of the larger speakerdesignworks.com towers.

If budget allows would look at the some of the SB tower kits.

 

[MT_bassbone]

If medium to large room, would suggest something more like Bagby's Solstice. Some of the larger speakerdesignworks.com If budget allows would look at the some of the SB tower kits.

What is your sense of keeping the speakers in the same budget range of my other components?