ATC SCM19 Bookshelf Speaker Review

[DSJR]

One of the most surprising and disappointing results yet. I've never owned any ATCs, or even heard any "properly", but I really, really, expected them to be top of the class. How could they put so much into that heavy build (which increases costs all the way from buying materials through to final dellivery to the customer), and yet get the basics so wrong?

But for small spaces and used close to walls, they haven't at all! The overbuild in engineering is an ATC 'thing' and that won't change...

 

[Archsam]

Don't want to derail this thread, about ATC, but I just want to point out that the LS3/5A was never a standard monitor. It was developed for speech monitoring in restricted spaces like OB vans and small voice booths. It was never intended for music, and all the LS3/5As I saw at the BBC, and there were plenty, were mostly in offices, propped up on books or on filing cabinets and used for content monitoring, not quality monitoring.

What they do have is consistency, and the idea was that one could book a pair out of stores and any two regardless of serial number or production date would work together as a stereo pair.

One should definitely not judge the BBC sound (if there's such a thing) by the LS3/5A.

S.

That may be the case in their original conception but today the LS3/5A are sold, marketed and purchased by manufacturers and audiophiles for music, so to me it is even more interesting to see their test results and put the design intent and their current application into context.

 

[thewas]

Harbeth Monitor 30 was within first ten reviews, it scored a fine 5,31 in preference rating and sounded good in Amir's ears verse the 4,61 score of SCM19 in preference rating and less optimal performance in listening test.
View attachment 71853

Nice comparison which shows rather even higher directivity problems with the Harbeth but due to its more linear and actually rather boosted/euphonic bass tuning it makes a big difference sound wise and means that with EQing the ATC can sound similarily euphonic, but the high woofer distortion is disappointing and limiting such.

 

[AudioSceptic]

Nope. From the manual:
View attachment 71833

Hmmm...I'd say these ATCs need all the corner bass boost they can get!

 

[Rja4000]

Neumann and Genelec aren't available in domestic dealers over here

You should still find them in music stores.

 

[DSJR]

You should still find them in music stores.

What, in domestic audio shops to compare with the stuff usually pushed? Nowhere round here (very) sadly... Neumann does seem to be about where it's at for not silly money actives which don't look too bad (I'd still like a grille over the driovers though for dust protection)

My local dealer sells and loves the Falcon LS3/5A re-creation (re-manufactured original drivers). I've heard them a good few times now used most often with Quad Artera and small Naim streaming amps and for myself, they give me exactly the same vibes I remember from the Rogers/Chartwell/Audiomaster originals. One man's detail is another's listening fatigue and another man's silk and velvet sound is a fourth man's boring and bland!

 

[thewas]

Yeah, the reputation deserves to be debunked. That said, ATC prices are the best anywhere I've seen. I can get the new SCM19 for a shade over 2k a pair, so almost half price, from an AD. But even 2k is hardly worth it if this performance persists in the new generation.

Here in Germany the price increases of British hyped brands like ATC or Harbeth in the last years is insane, official pair price for the SCM19 is now 2900€ (!) per pair and some years ago you could get a pair of the 3-way floorstanders SCM 40 with the nice 3" mid dome for 3-something k€!
But I guess as long as enough "audiophiles" are prepared to pay those prices and prices increases it would be silly from the companies not to do so.

 

[Jukebox]

Famous brands like PMC and ATC should have done better but really is no surprise. The literature is there, what a good speakers should measure like is pretty much established, just update your skills and make them.
And there are a lot of good driver manufacturers out there, why not use them and insist making their own with inferior performance?

 

[ctrl]

Yet that resonance at 700Hz that nobody seems to have noticed or found problematic...

The speaker has a decay problem in the frequency range of 500-700Hz. The resonance at 500Hz could be caused by an internal standing wave in the speaker cabinet - but I don't know how well the inside of the cabinet is damped.

But you should consider that at 600Hz a full oscillation period lasts 1.7ms. In contrast, after 4ms the resonance is damped by about -20dB, i.e. roughly two oscillation periods of the driver at 600Hz. This is not really a problem (IMO), but it is an unpleasant detail in the price range.

In comparison, the Ocean Way HR5 speaker, for example, has a real resonance problem.

 

[AudioSceptic]

Another What Hi-fi? darling..
https://www.whathifi.com/atc/scm19/review
"...transparent to the original recording and system electronics. Buy with confidence."

That looks very different to the one Amir tested. Is this V2? Another very favourable review here, and I thought HFC was one of the more reliable mags. https://www.hifichoice.com/content/atc-scm19-£1996

LIKE: Very revealing; superb bass and fine timing; well built
DISLIKE: Needs more power than average to give of its best
WE SAY: When it comes to bandwidth and transparency per pound, the SCM19 is particularly good

 

[AudioSceptic]

Don't want to derail this thread, about ATC, but I just want to point out that the LS3/5A was never a standard monitor. It was developed for speech monitoring in restricted spaces like OB vans and small voice booths. It was never intended for music, and all the LS3/5As I saw at the BBC, and there were plenty, were mostly in offices, propped up on books or on filing cabinets and used for content monitoring, not quality monitoring.

What they do have is consistency, and the idea was that one could book a pair out of stores and any two regardless of serial number or production date would work together as a stereo pair.

One should definitely not judge the BBC sound (if there's such a thing) by the LS3/5A.

S.

I'm sure that's true, but all the same, they have been highly regarded for playing music ever since they first appeared, with due allowance for limited bass and output level.

 

[ctrl]

When comparing the ATC with the recently tested PMC, the ATC performs significantly better in terms of measured values.
The ATC has a more even radiation and less distortion (>100Hz) than the PMC.

If you ignore the nasty problems caused by the edge diffraction around 4kHz with the PMC, you can achieve a useful result with EQ on this speaker as well - the 5dB on-axis dip around 4kHz must not be compensated under any circumstances.

In terms of the price-performance ratio, both are a disaster.

 

[Archsam]

Here in Germany the price increases of British hyped brands like ATC or Harbeth in the last years is insane, official pair price for the SCM19 is now 2900€ (!) per pair and some years ago you could get a pair of the 3-way floorstanders SCM 40 with the nice 3" mid dome for 3-something k€!
But I guess as long as enough "audiophiles" are prepared to pay those prices and prices increases it would be silly from the companies not to do so.

Its not just in your country. Here in the UK the latest Harbeth XD range, which is really just an update to their existing range, bump the price up considerably. My P3esr for example costed £1500 5 years ago, the new P3esr XD, with a new crossover and 'better' internal wiring, cost £2500.

 

[AudioSceptic]

Whoops. I thought the review was of the latest version. This one, as is the case with the PMC 20.21, is no longer in production. The latest version has a new tweeter and the mid/bass driver is known as one of the best in the industry. Understand that Amir reviews what he can get his hands on of course.

"...known as..."? We know that counts for little, and it's the bass-mid that's the problem here, not the tweeter. (The crossover could also be a major factor.)

 

[patate91]

Speaker Listening Tests
You all keep asking me to listen to the speaker before measuring. So this time as the system was crunching the equations I did precisely that, fully biased on the incredible heft of the speaker and beefy speakers expecting to be blown away by the dynamics.

Cool!

 

[sergeauckland]

I'm sure that's true, but all the same, they have been highly regarded for playing music ever since they first appeared, with due allowance for limited bass and output level.

But then so have Linn Kans.....

S.

 

[BYRTT]

Here in Germany the price increases of British hyped brands like ATC or Harbeth in the last years is insane, official pair price for the SCM19 is now 2900€ (!) per pair and some years ago you could get a pair of the 3-way floorstanders SCM 40 with the nice 3" mid dome for 3-something k€!
But I guess as long as enough "audiophiles" are prepared to pay those prices and prices increases it would be silly from the companies not to do so.

Its not just in your country. Here in the UK the latest Harbeth XD range, which is really just an update to their existing range, bump the price up considerably. My P3esr for example costed £1500 5 years ago, the new P3esr XD, with a new crossover and 'better' internal wiring, cost £2500.

Ha ha could it be they probably like have their own company Klippel NFS robot that we know is some costly

 

[AudioSceptic]

Why would they build a speaker with completely different tonality than this one and call it the same? My sense is that new version is substantially the same.

The model number is just the internal volume in litres.

 

[DSJR]

I'm sure that's true, but all the same, they have been highly regarded for playing music ever since they first appeared, with due allowance for limited bass and output level.

Back in 1974/75 when I first heard the Rogers original LS3/5A, they were regarded as cute dinky little speakers with a better midband than the then favourite paper cone models from AR and Celestion (the Ditton 15 was getting very long in the tooth and was much larger anyway). By themid 80's, KEF had altered the spec of the bass-mid driver and the quack at 1.5khz or so was much emphasised, this totally killing the already squeaky Linn Kan and Isobarik mids. The BBC authorised a total redesign with the later KEF driver. In the late 80's, I visited the then freshly taken over Harbeth company and Alan demonstrated the Harbeth 3/5A (now regarded as one of the better ones I believe) with the then new P3. on a favourite old recording (I think it was the Decca Peter Grimes from the late 50's) played on a modest CD player and Quad 34/306 (yep, really!) the P3 imaged so much more clearly and the performers sounded as if they were playing in a space between the speakers (high stands around 6' minimum from any rear or side wall).

I wonder what 'UK' make will be next for annihilation? B&W (and no mention of Spendor?)? I mean, they're fair game in every review I've seen of various models...

 

[thewas]

I wonder what 'UK' make will be next for annihilation? B&W? I mean, they're fair game in every review I've seen of various models...

After 2000s B&W is more like Harbeth, quite good drivers distortion-wise and poor directivity due to driver and crossover choices but clever crossover voicing to counteract those for an euphonic PIR / sound power.