• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). There are daily reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

ATC SCM19 Bookshelf Speaker Review

OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
39,921
Likes
184,775
Location
Seattle Area
Forgot to post the nearfield response of the woofer and tweeter (drive NOT split):

ATS SCM19 Bookshelf Speaker Woofer and Tweeter nearfield frequency response measurements.png
 

Ilkless

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 26, 2019
Messages
1,468
Likes
2,809
Location
Singapore
Could it be that they are making nearfield measurements and getting artificial bass boost that way?

Yeah, Atkinson's nearfield measurements always have a bump, and all ATCs measure flat there. Regardless, it still reflects a lack of understanding of nearfield measurements and BSC.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 617

maty

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 12, 2017
Messages
4,148
Likes
2,824
Location
Tarragona (Spain)
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=120868.msg1271754#msg1271754

by Danny Richie

[ WOW!

Some inexpensive poly caps (not bad though), sand caste resistors (16 cents each and the worst of all), clear PVC jacketed wire possible one Copper and one Aluminum, and slip on connectors.... If the inductors are Bennic as well then they could even be made from recycled Copper (typically they are 94 to 96% pure Copper). ]
 

maty

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 12, 2017
Messages
4,148
Likes
2,824
Location
Tarragona (Spain)
External Crossover For ATC SCM19's

xover21.jpg


[ The results have been amazing. Overall clarity has gone way up. Vocals sound like the folks singing are in the room. Some instruments, like piano also sound very real. The treble is especially improved, much cleaner. In fact, I would put these up against the stock V.2 version. ]
 

TimVG

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 16, 2019
Messages
1,179
Likes
2,527
Could it be that they are making nearfield measurements and getting artificial bass boost that way?

From a factory tour on Youtube. The funny thing is that they mention a QC system by Klippel in the same video.

1593845346639.png
 

Chrise36

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Dec 23, 2018
Messages
831
Likes
273
Nope. From the manual:
View attachment 71833
ATC are known for having overdamped bass and need a sub in my opinion. Anyway the manual also says if the balance is bass light the monitors can be moved towards the back walls is there a chance Amir can measure them like this?These are supposed to be bookshelf speakers from their home line they could be designed for this.Is there a chance Amir will be measuring any of their 3 ways with the famous midrange it is cosidered one of the best midranges like the 40 or the 50?
 

Chrise36

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Dec 23, 2018
Messages
831
Likes
273
External Crossover For ATC SCM19's

xover21.jpg


[ The results have been amazing. Overall clarity has gone way up. Vocals sound like the folks singing are in the room. Some instruments, like piano also sound very real. The treble is especially improved, much cleaner. In fact, I would put these up against the stock V.2 version. ]
Hi maty do you have any recommendations for the SCM20 non sl version eg xover or tweeter with proven results?
 

Ilkless

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 26, 2019
Messages
1,468
Likes
2,809
Location
Singapore
ATC are known for having overdamped bass and need a sub in my opinion. Anyway the manual also says if the balance is bass light the monitors can be moved towards the back walls is there a chance Amir can measure them like this?These are supposed to be bookshelf speakers from their home line they could be designed for this.Is there a chance Amir will be measuring any of their 3 ways with the famous midrange it is cosidered one of the best midranges like the 40 or the 50?

The magic midrange dome is all cult of personality. Independent lab data shows it was obliterated by the contemporaneous Neumann dome, which can play 10dB (10 times more power handling, twice as loud) before it distorts as much as the ATC dome. What a joke. To add to this humiliation, teardowns show that the Neumann dome has a much more compact footprint, allowing tighter centre-to-centre spacing. This certainly exposes ATC as a laughably backward brand capable of only designing large primitive drivers that still fail to reach the SOTA despite the size and weight penalty.
 
Last edited:
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
39,921
Likes
184,775
Location
Seattle Area
From a factory tour on Youtube. The funny thing is that they mention a QC system by Klippel in the same video.
Klippel QC is just a production tester for speakers. It is not at all the same as Klippel NFS.
 

BikeSmith60

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2020
Messages
35
Likes
13
Location
Paris, France
Whoops. I thought the review was of the latest version. This one, as is the case with the PMC 20.21, is no longer in production. The latest version has a new tweeter and the mid/bass driver is known as one of the best in the industry. Understand that Amir reviews what he can get his hands on of course.
 

phoenixdogfan

Major Contributor
Joined
Nov 6, 2018
Messages
2,661
Likes
3,498
Location
Nashville
Ouch. ATC provides a long list of artists whose recording studios use their speakers for mastering..Assuming the pro line is similar, our circles of confusion must be well, really confusing if you are listening to those artists through well-measuring speakers.

I've owned the SCM19s for many years and always used them with subwoofers. They sounded good to me until I heard the Revels.

Thank you, @amirm for the review. This is so revealing, it makes me question what I thought was good HiFi.
Hopefully, in this case the circle will not be unbroken.
 

Chrise36

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Dec 23, 2018
Messages
831
Likes
273
The magic midrange dome is all cult of personality. Independent lab data shows it was obliterated by the contemporaneous Neumann dome, which can play 10dB (10 times louder as sound pressure level is logarithmic) before it distorts as much as the ATC dome. What a joke. To add to this humiliation, teardowns show that the Neumann dome has a much more compact footprint, allowing tighter centre-to-centre spacing. This certainly exposes ATC as a laughably backward brand capable of only designing large primitive drivers that still fail to reach the SOTA despite the size and weight penalty.
If it was a joke why did Neumann and most of the pro brands use it in their speakers before ATC made it unavailable? And most of them tried to imitate the design?
 
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
39,921
Likes
184,775
Location
Seattle Area
Whoops. I thought the review was of the latest version. This one, as is the case with the PMC 20.21, is no longer in production. The latest version has a new tweeter and the mid/bass driver is known as one of the best in the industry. Understand that Amir reviews what he can get his hands on of course.
Why would they build a speaker with completely different tonality than this one and call it the same? My sense is that new version is substantially the same.
 

Ilkless

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 26, 2019
Messages
1,468
Likes
2,809
Location
Singapore
If it was a joke why did Neumann amd most of the pro brands use it in their speakers before ATC made it unavailable? And most of them tried to imitate the design?

Please see the data. The ATC dome outlived its usefulness. Neumann's modern design, engineering and manufacturing techniques resulted in a vastly superior, yet more compact dome with vastly higher headroom, power handling, response linearity, lower distortion and directivity control. Techniques that ATC never bothered to catch up on (or perhaps, lacked the resources and knowledge to do so) in their slavish obsession with big primitive drivers. Its a humiliation that no cult of personality can paper over.

P.S.: if someone could send a BareFoot or an Amphion to Amir that would be great. The BareFoot are very expensive, don't have a lot of measurement around and have a good reputation.

Barefoot's entry-level Footprint speakers look like a decent deal if they measure well - dual-opposed woofers, dedicated mids, biamplifiction, ring radiator tweeter at $3500 is not bad.
 

Chrise36

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Dec 23, 2018
Messages
831
Likes
273
Please see the data. The ATC dome outlived its usefulness. Neumann's modern design, engineering and manufacturing techniques resulted in a vastly superior, yet more compact dome with vastly higher headroom, power handling, response linearity, lower distortion and directivity control. Techniques that ATC never bothered to catch up on (or perhaps, lacked the resources and knowledge to do so) in their slavish obsession with big primitive drivers. Its a humiliation that no cult of personality can paper over.



Barefoot's entry-level Footprint speakers look like a decent deal if they measure well - dual-opposed woofers, dedicated mids, biamplifiction, ring radiator tweeter at $3500 is not bad.
Humiliation is a harsh word for such a respected company like ATC and one can not make conclusion from having measured one speaker from their entire line although i would not pay the money they are asking for their speakers. What every brand is claiming Neumann included can only be measured and proven. They could be better or worse.
 

maty

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 12, 2017
Messages
4,148
Likes
2,824
Location
Tarragona (Spain)
Hi maty do you have any recommendations for the SCM20 non sl version eg xover or tweeter with proven results?

I do not know anything about them. Years ago I ruled out ATCs, too expensive for what they offered. The only interesting thing was the weight.
 
Top Bottom