Philharmonic BMR Monitor Semi-Objective Review - Road Show Stop 1

[ryanosaur]

Being a fan of Dennis' work and my collection of Raal gear around me (all seven bed-layer Speakers), I thought it interesting to share my experience with one of his implementations for Jim and the SS 9.5. I was at the CAS in 2019 when the 9.5 was making its debut round. The best description I can give is that it sounded like a distillation of the Phil 3 and BMR Monitor implementations.
Obviously, the Mid and Tweet of the 9.5 are very different affairs. However, many of the qualities that I fell in love with in the Philharmonic gear were still present. Of course, 20 minutes in a hotel room is not a real test of a Speaker, but the sniff test was passed.

The question as asked about how much is in the design work may well have a lot of merit. It would be great to have the 9.5s in the same room as the 3s, or now the BMR Towers /Monitors, but barring that, it really felt like I was at home while I was sitting in that room a few chairs away from Jim.

It remains an intriguing question, though.
So many times has it been commented on that there is something special about the Raals. I've seen discussion from many angles and owners not related to Dennis' designs that indicate some aspect in the Driver itself is at play.
For certain, the conversation won't end here.

 

[Chromatischism]

To address one of Dr. Toole's points, I would venture to guess that a couple potential reasons for RAAL ribbons not having taken over the marketplace is A) their comparative expense versus most non-exotic domes (particularly the larger ones), and B) their narrow vertical dispersion, with the latter likely to be lacking in showroom-friendliness. Whatever science or "magic" might be responsible for their positive feedback, there's no question that you need to be nearly locked into vertical alignment with the RAAL tweeter to hear it at its best. That's probably not conducive to someone wandering through a store while listening to several speakers.

I agree it wasn't the best point to make. The winner in the commercial world isn't always the best, but the best marketed. Just to be fair.

Beyond that, I don't doubt that the remarks relating to phase shifts, transient response, etc, are valid - but again, it then begs the question - so what is it? Is it simply the implementation of a good speaker design and crossover, and not much of anything to do with the so-called massless advantage of true ribbons? If so, why are domes so challenged to get there?

I don't follow. We have domes that are light enough to be flat to 30 kHz and cost $20. Is that not enough?

 

[mj30250]

I don't follow. We have domes that are light enough to be flat to 30 kHz and cost $20. Is that not enough?

Well that's sort of what I'm asking. If we have cheap, neutral domes capable of wide dispersion, good power handling, and breakup frequencies well beyond audibility, what is "it" about the RAAL ribbons that allows them to sound different? Dr. Toole says the secret is in the motor, but then goes on to claim that ribbon motors are often weaker than dome motors. Do the RAAL ribbons specifically overcome this limitation and swing things in the other direction? Do Serbians pass secret tweeter motor secrets down from generation to generation?

 

[Chromatischism]

The dispersion patterns are different, so I'd start there.

I believe the point he was making was that the motor can make up for mass.

 

[muad]

The dispersion patterns are different, so I'd start there.

I believe the point he was making was that the motor can make up for mass.

This makes the most sense. Nothing else plays to 180 degrees that high in frequency. Every horizontal reflection in a room will reflect that. When I had the BMRs, this stood out to me the most.

 

[mj30250]

It would fantastic to be able to set up blind testing between a RAAL speaker such as the BMR or Sierra and a well-regarded dome with similarly-wide dispersion, but conduct it first in a highly treated room with minimal reflection points and then again in a typical living-room environment with its dense population of reflective surfaces. Would that solve the "mystery"? If only this was as simple as it sounds.

 

[Jdunk54nl]

It would fantastic to be able to set up blind testing between a RAAL speaker such as the BMR or Sierra and a well-regarded dome with similarly-wide dispersion, but conduct it first in a highly treated room with minimal reflection points and then again in a typical living-room environment with its dense population of reflective surfaces. Would that solve the "mystery"? If only this was as simple as it sounds.

Sure, find a similar wide dispersion dome speaker that is also well designed with similar. If it isn't too expensive I would buy it and try it with the BMR's in a controlled listening environment.

 

[mj30250]

Ascend's own LX speaker might actually be a good candidate for comparison. It uses a modified SEAS dome with wide dispersion similar to the 20mm ribbon in their towers. Plots of both from Ascend:

Here's Erin's plot for the BMR (obviously full range as opposed to the above):

And Erin's plot for the F226Bes (also full range):

 

[Jdunk54nl]

But you need to look specifically at the differences in the tweeter. That ascend tweeter is only about +- 50 degrees in that plot where as the BMR RAAL tweeter is about +- 90.

Edit* The F226be is a good candidate, but that is out of the price range.

 

[pjug]

Ascend's own LX speaker might actually be a good candidate for comparison. It uses a modified SEAS dome with wide dispersion similar to the 20mm ribbon in their towers. Plots of both from Ascend:

I have the BMR monitor and WOW1 (Hiquphon OW1 tweeter) I could compare. I was thinking of stacking with WOW 1 upside down and slightly tilted down. Then play HP filtered pink noise to see if they sound different. I can make a track that switches L/R back and forth with volume adjusted for sensitivity differences. Is it worth doing, though, since it would just be my impression? I am guessing it likely I will end up saying I don't hear a great difference in these tweeters (I hear to about 13KHz).

 

[Keened]

Whatever science or "magic" might be responsible for their positive feedback, there's no question that you need to be nearly locked into vertical alignment with the RAAL tweeter to hear it at its best. That's probably not conducive to someone wandering through a store while listening to several speakers.

Given the narrow vertical dispersion, would it be a good canidate for multiple tweeters along the vertical length of a speaker then? Doesn't sound like they would interfere with each other very much if you had 1 at the top/1 in the middle/1 at the bottom?

I'm also considering putting the monitors on these stands to help increase the vertical sweet spot when you stand up but worry it will make the bottom of the range too high for lying down on the couch.

 

[mj30250]

But you need to look specifically at the differences in the tweeter. That ascend tweeter is only about +- 50 degrees in that plot where as the BMR RAAL tweeter is about +- 90.

Edit* The F226be is a good candidate, but that is out of the price range.

I believe that the M126Be bookshelf uses the same tweeter / waveguide. They're still not cheap but you could always Crutchfield them in and return them after comparing. Of course they are out of stock at the moment.

 

[Jdunk54nl]

I believe that the M126Be bookshelf uses the same tweeter / waveguide. They're still not cheap but you could always Crutchfield them in and return them after comparing. Of course they are out of stock at the moment.

From audioholics. It isn't even close to the BMR dispersion pattern.

Hopefully, some are starting to see the issue and probably the "magic" behind the BMR monitors. I don't know of another well-designed speaker that has this dispersion AND the frequency response.

Revel Performa M126Be Bookshelf Speaker Review

Check out our review of Revel's Performa M126Be. With air-core inductors, polyfilm capacitors, anodized aluminum woofers, and even a Beryllium tweeter this is the little speaker that could!

www.audioholics.com

 

[mj30250]

From audioholics. It isn't even close to the BMR dispersion pattern.

Hopefully, some are starting to see the issue and probably the "magic" behind the BMR monitors. I don't know of another well-designed speaker that has this dispersion AND the frequency response.

Revel Performa M126Be Bookshelf Speaker Review

Check out our review of Revel's Performa M126Be. With air-core inductors, polyfilm capacitors, anodized aluminum woofers, and even a Beryllium tweeter this is the little speaker that could!

www.audioholics.com

That lines up somewhat closely with their F226Be measurements in the tweeter's range which is quite different from Erin's results using the NFS:

 

[Jdunk54nl]

That lines up somewhat closely with their F226Be measurements in the tweeter's range which is quite different from Erin's results using the NFS:

View attachment 205880

Fair point.
I am still not buying a $2200 speaker just to do this test. I am also not one to buy one with the sole purpose of doing this test and then returning it. I think that is a huge abuse of their return policies if I have no intention of ever keeping it. I don't mind returning things that I thought I would use but it didn't work out, but I will not do this.

 

[mj30250]

Fair point.
I am still not buying a $2200 speaker just to do this test. I am also not one to buy one with the sole purpose of doing this test and then returning it. I think that is a huge abuse of their return policies if I have no intention of ever keeping it. I don't mind returning things that I thought I would use but it didn't work out, but I will not do this.

That's certainly fair, I just threw it out there as a much more manageable option versus dealing with towers.

 

[Chromatischism]

It would fantastic to be able to set up blind testing between a RAAL speaker such as the BMR or Sierra and a well-regarded dome with similarly-wide dispersion, but conduct it first in a highly treated room with minimal reflection points and then again in a typical living-room environment with its dense population of reflective surfaces. Would that solve the "mystery"? If only this was as simple as it sounds.

I've proposed doing so outside to remove all reflections. My current stance is with only direct sound, you won't be able to tell which is which if they are both 2-way speakers with the same crossover frequency and frequency response is exactly the same.

 

[pjug]

Curiosity got the better of me so I did the comparison of RAAL vs OW1 as described in post #290. So the OW1 was about 6 inches above the RAAL, and WOW1 speaker tilted down slightly so that I was listening to the OW1 axis about 10' away. Playing pink noise high-passed at 4KHz and gain compensated so they both played at the same level.

I was very surprised; they sounded very different. The OW1 sounded like it had much more very high freq content, and also gave me the sensation that two frequency bands were playing, as if there were a dip between (could just be how my brain processed having more high-end energy?). The RAAL sounded like a single continuous band of noise with less high end compared to the OW1.

This is opposite of the previous impression I have had of the speakers. The BMR with the RAAL I have felt has more sparkle. But this plays in a larger room than the OW1, so that probably has something to do with it.

On dispersion, horizontally they both seem to go all the way to about 90 degrees, just moving around and listening with my ears. But vertically the RAAL falls off fast off axis, of course.

Here are moving microphone measurements, about a one foot box at the listening position. This is with the compensation for pink noise slope, so flat horizontal would be the ideal anechoic.

As for RAAL magic, I have no idea. I think I must just be hearing spectral difference more than I would expect to notice.

 

[Chromatischism]

The dome is 3 dB hotter through much of the treble - do you have the ability to EQ them?

 

[moonlight rainbow dream]

Cool... Thanks for experimenting.

By virtue of the power response, isn't it literally true that the dome is putting more high frequency energy into the room?

Also, it'd be interesting to hear your impressions using a lower high pass filter. It is my understanding that most of the difference we hear between tweeters is in their low end.. partly because that is where human hearing is most sensitive and partly because that is where we see the greatest variability in distortion performance.