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Yamaha R-N2000A network receiver
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martijn86
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My personal fantasy (I might actually do it) is to make a mold of the side-panels and then create forged carbon fibre panels. I always wanted to try my hand at carbon fibre molding. Then replace the top panel with sheet acrylic (tinted if the VU light bleeds into the inside).
UncleFungus
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Personally I think the silver looks better. However silver would look out of place in my setup so my A-S1100 is black and so is my R-N2000A.
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Interesting review here, the guy seems to have a discussion line with Yamaha.
www.stereonet.com
What about the RN2000A YPAO, is it same exactly with RN803D?
Though happy with my AS1100, I am looking medium term to some device with streaming & room correction: Arcam SA 30 (G class, first 30w A class!) VS. Lyngdorf TDAI 1120 (plus power) VS. RN2000A.
Yamaha R-N2000A Stereo Network Receiver Review
Mark Gusew auditions this sophisticated new network receiver…
www.stereonet.com
What about the RN2000A YPAO, is it same exactly with RN803D?
Though happy with my AS1100, I am looking medium term to some device with streaming & room correction: Arcam SA 30 (G class, first 30w A class!) VS. Lyngdorf TDAI 1120 (plus power) VS. RN2000A.
Pretty easy if the A-S1200 is any indication, getting the parts will be the challenge.
Sorry for my noob questions but here goes,, what does a loudness knob do compared to using a regular volume knob, why is it important to have it ?
Also I don't get the VU meters why do I want to look at them, just to see how much power or DB level I'm using ?? I watched A, Robinsons review and he doesn't explain those things.
Lastly would this AMP pair well well my ELAC Debut Reference DBR62 speakers ?
Also I don't get the VU meters why do I want to look at them, just to see how much power or DB level I'm using ?? I watched A, Robinsons review and he doesn't explain those things.
Lastly would this AMP pair well well my ELAC Debut Reference DBR62 speakers ?
UncleFungus
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The loudness knob is kind of like an advanced bass and treble control in one and it's good for getting dynamics at lower volumes. Maybe someone else can explain it better.
While the meters function as they should, in reality they are cosmetic. Either you like them or you don't.
While the meters function as they should, in reality they are cosmetic. Either you like them or you don't.
Your ears don't hear sound pressure levels like they are in reality.
The louder the signal, the louder you hear bass and highs, compared to mids.
In other words, if the volume is low, the music sounds as if it has less and less bass and highs, it sounds flat, even if it technically still has the same loudness for bass, mids and highs.
This equal loudness perception becomes a problem if you like to listen to music at night, without waking up the children, music becomes flat and lifeless.
Here is the more detailed explanation:
Equal-loudness contour - Wikipedia
Back in the day this was solved with a loudness button that simply added bass and treble, but that obviously only works perfectly at a single volume setting. The same could be achieved with bass and treble, again, just at a single volume.
This knowledge has been lost now and manufacturers just ignore the problem, as everyone else seems to do so and still sells their wares. So for decades we had a wrong loudness, now they we don't have a loudness at all.
Yamaha solved that a few dacades ago by using a variable loudness. You put the volume setting to where it sounds best in your room, then use the variable loudness to turn the volume down to your "night level". It's brilliant, as from now on you can use the variable loudness to change the volume, but with proper equal loudness curve correction. Yamaha is to my knowledge the last manufacturer that uses variable loudness, even in their cheaper offerings like the A-S301.
Only one thing bothers me, you still move the volume with the remote, not the loudness.
Other than that, i wish everyone would do their homework and do it like Yamaha.
I think we should do equal loudness correction in the digital space, for example in a DSP or in a DAC, but nobody seems to be interested in solving the equal loudness problem really.
As @UncleFungus said, VU meters are just for looks. We even have a thread entirely dedicated to VU meter pornography:
VU Meters: Let's See 'Em!!
If you got 'em, post a pic. Or just post a pic of your favorite VU meters. Here's a Luxman 700u. I'll post the Luxman 900u later on.
www.audiosciencereview.com
Yes.
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Your ears don't hear sound pressure levels like they are in reality.
The louder the signal, the louder you hear bass and highs, compared to mids.
In other words, if the volume is low, the music sounds as if it has less and less bass and highs, it sounds flat, even if it technically still has the same loudness for bass, mids and highs.
This equal loudness perception becomes a problem if you like to listen to music at night, without waking up the children, music becomes flat and lifeless.
Here is the more detailed explanation:
Equal-loudness contour - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Back in the day this was solved with a loudness button that simply added bass and treble, but that obviously only works perfectly at a single volume setting. The same could be achieved with bass and treble, again, just at a single volume.
This knowledge has been lost now and manufacturers just ignore the problem, as everyone else seems to do so and still sells their wares. So for decades we had a wrong loudness, now they we don't have a loudness at all.
Yamaha solved that a few dacades ago by using a variable loudness. You put the volume setting to where it sounds best in your room, then use the variable loudness to turn the volume down to your "night level". It's brilliant, as from now on you can use the variable loudness to change the volume, but with proper equal loudness curve correction. Yamaha is to my knowledge the last manufacturer that uses variable loudness, even in their cheaper offerings like the A-S301.
Only one thing bothers me, you still move the volume with the remote, not the loudness.
Other than that, i wish everyone would do their homework and do it like Yamaha.
I think we should do equal loudness correction in the digital space, for example in a DSP or in a DAC, but nobody seems to be interested in solving the equal loudness problem really.
As @UncleFungus said, VU meters are just for looks. We even have a thread entirely dedicated to VU meter pornography:
VU Meters: Let's See 'Em!!
If you got 'em, post a pic. Or just post a pic of your favorite VU meters. Here's a Luxman 700u. I'll post the Luxman 900u later on.
Yes.
"Back in the day this was solved with a loudness button that simply added bass and treble, but that obviously only works perfectly at a single volume setting"
Well that would make sorta of inconvenient I think, if someone keeps changing the volume then they would also have to adjust the loudness almost every time otherwise the sound might be unbalanced. Another issue is say I'm listening at a lower volume and using the loudness knob but the next day I want to listen to loud music I might forget to put the loudness back 0/flat. If I get this amp or any amp that has the loudness option I don't think I'm gonna want to use it. But I will at least test it though just to see.
By the way at Crutchfield and Yamaha it says it supports MusicCast and Spotify but it doesn't say just Spotify Connect. Does that mean I would have to use Spotify within MusicCast and have to make a account with MusicCast ? The thing is I want to use the Spotify app I already have my music and the Spotify app setup like I want it. I'm new to this stuff, I bought my first receiver a couple of months ago and it had Spotify Connect so I never had to use anything else.
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Agreed that the old school Yamaha adjustable loudness contour is better than the old switch the engaged it and the filter was slowly tuned out as you increased the volume.
Ideally such a control would have a calibration feature where you play a 1KHz tone, set it to a reference level by measuring the output with a mic and then the DSP could take it from there. Without the calibration feature the loudness control is simply another tone control.
dougi
Addicted to Fun and Learning
From my my experience with a Yamaha WXA-50 and RX-A2A AVR, both with musicast, you don't need musicast to use Spotify, so they have "Spotify connect". Just point Spotify to the Yamaha device and it will (mostly) pick it up. From memory, you don't have to register any details with the Musicast app if you do want to use it.
The point i was trying to make was, Yamahas variable loudness will solve that problem.
You never touch the volume again once set to your maximum volume with the loudness flat, you change the volume with the variable loudness from then on.
It's the best equal loudness implementation i know.
Reallyyy, that seems really odd to me. I had to read your response like a few times before it sunk in LOL. So for example 74db is the loudest I could want to hear at any time with my AVR but I listen lower too of coarse. So let me get this right, with this Yamaha I should set it at 74db with the volume button then never touch it again ? So then only use the loudness dial to change the volume ?
That is exactly how variable loudness is supposed to work.
Always.
But that get's you to the next problem. Here is a rare picture of the Yamaha lead product designer when asked why the remote moves the volume, not the loudness:
cybernaut667
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Something like this?
It already exists.
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