Yamaha AS 3200 does not sound as good as Yamaha r-n2000a

[dman777]

I own the Yamaha r-n2000a and I like it alot. I liked it so much, I bought the Yamaha AS 3200 because I found a good sale price brand new. I am using/comparing the amps with Sonus Faber Lumina II speakers.

Here is what is better about it the 3200:
1) Fuller bass
2) Even though it is only 5 watts more, I only have to turn the volume up about 35%. On the 2000a I would have to go about 60%.

Here is what is better on the lesser expensive 2000:
1) Alot better treble
2) Alot better sound stage and depth.

I don't understand. I am using my cd player to compare the two amps as the source. It is a 1993 Sony 779 ES. The 3200 amp only has analog inputs, so I am connecting it with XLR connections. I made sure the hot pin was correct. With the 2000, I was using optical in and so there I believe I was using the 2000's ESS Dacs. With the 32000, I am using the Sony CD player dacs I believe because of the analog connection. Could the DAC be the reason why the lesser expensive 2000 would sound better than the 3200? If so, would it even create better treble that I miss on the 2000?

 

[ta240]

The DAC is likely a huge part of it, you are using a pretty new, modern DAC against a 30 year old one. DACs have made huge improvements since then and things like capacitors in your CD player may be getting near or passing their lifespan.

Also, less bass generally allows one to notice the high frequencies more so it can sound more airy, which can also give the music the 'feeling' of being in the room more.

Your r-n2000a has a pre-out so you could run CD player digital into it and then run out from there to the 3200 to see how it sounds.

 

[dman777]

ya, I turned down the bass a lot try and boost the mids and highs like you mentioned, but it didn't really make it good like the cheaper 2000a.

 

[JayGilb]

I would recommend you compare both using rca to rca connections and accurate volume matching.

 

[ta240]

ya, I turned down the bass a lot try and boost the mids and highs like you mentioned, but it didn't really make it good like the cheaper 2000a.

The DAC difference is probably the biggest culprit there. I'm not familiar with how high end DACs like the one in your CD player were back then but I'd really think that is the issue. It would be funny to use something the size of the 2000a as a preamp but it should work temporarily so you could decide if the 3200 is something you want to keep and just add a quality DAC to.

 

[Greenman]

As stated above, you are comparing two systems, one with a near 30 year old dac in the stream and the other with a modern dac and blaming the results on the amps!!.

i suspect the Sony CD doesn’t have digital outputs so not easy to compare like with like, but I think you proved the CD player is holding back the system somewhat.

 

[Chazz6]

Seems like a perfect moment to get into streaming, and then compare the amps.

 

[voodooless]

If the CD player held up all these years it should still be quite excellent:

Sony CDP-X779ES CD player Measurements

Sidebar 2: Measurements

www.stereophile.com

I doubt you could ABX this thing against a SOTA 2023 DAC when it was brand new.

You’ll really need to test these things at least level matched. Do you have a DMM?

If you have an audio interface you could try to record the CD player to see if it’s still linear. You’ll just need to burn some test tracks on a CD.

Also, did you disable all tone controls on both amps, as well as room correction on the cheaper unit?

 

[dman777]

I just had a good idea.... I am going to use the r-n2000a as a preamp to the 3200. Then I will plug my cd player into the n2000a through the optical. Going to try tonight. Would it be bad if I stacked those 2 amps on top of each other? I wasn't sure about electric interference and my shelf is not long enough for all of them

 

[antcollinet]

I own the Yamaha r-n2000a and I like it alot. I liked it so much, I bought the Yamaha AS 3200 because I found a good sale price brand new. I am using/comparing the amps with Sonus Faber Lumina II speakers.

Here is what is better about it the 3200:
1) Fuller bass
2) Even though it is only 5 watts more, I only have to turn the volume up about 35%. On the 2000a I would have to go about 60%.

Here is what is better on the lesser expensive 2000:
1) Alot better treble
2) Alot better sound stage and depth.

I don't understand. I am using my cd player to compare the two amps as the source. It is a 1993 Sony 779 ES. The 3200 amp only has analog inputs, so I am connecting it with XLR connections. I made sure the hot pin was correct. With the 2000, I was using optical in and so there I believe I was using the 2000's ESS Dacs. With the 32000, I am using the Sony CD player dacs I believe because of the analog connection. Could the DAC be the reason why the lesser expensive 2000 would sound better than the 3200? If so, would it even create better treble that I miss on the 2000?

How are you level matching for the comparison. This is the most likely difference. Even a tiny (1%) difference in level can make one sound much better than the other. You need to use a multimeter to level match at the speaker terminals.

 

[voodooless]

I just had a good idea.... I am going to use the r-n2000a as a preamp to the 3200. Then I will plug my cd player into the n2000a through the optical. Going to try tonight. Would it be bad if I stacked those 2 amps on top of each other? I wasn't sure about electric interference and my shelf is not long enough for all of them

That will remove one more variable, should be useful. Putting them on top of each other should be fine.

Remember to level match exactly!

 

[Doodski]

Use this sine wave generator and set both to the same voltage level so there is no difference in volume between the two things you are comparing.

Online Tone Generator - generate pure tones of any frequency

szynalski.com

 

[Overseas]

Compared separately, you have a different chain: source - DAC - preamp - power amp. The position of the volume knob is not very relevant, btw.
But you can find ways to better comparability, as discussed above.
What was that good offer for As3200, what price?

 

[Overseas]

Actually, you can try something nice, by bi-wiring the speakers.
If your speakers allow bi-wiring, you can compare only the bass and only the medium & treble separately!

 

[Overseas]

Mmm, looks like your speakers can be bi wired, but it is High vs medium & low, anyway, that is the idea.

 

[dman777]

Compared separately, you have a different chain: source - DAC - preamp - power amp. The position of the volume knob is not very relevant, btw.
But you can find ways to better comparability, as discussed above.
What was that good offer for As3200, what price?

It was on sale for $6000.00 on Amazon by Amazon itself (not third party). Last I checked they have just one left and it is marked down to $5,766. Brand new, not used.

If I decide I don't like my amp I hope I can sell it on ebay for a decent price and not lose to much money. I am not brave enough to try to return it to Amazon...something like that might make them cancel my account.

 

[restorer-john]

The CDP-779ES is basically a flawless CD player. It will likely outperform any standalone DAC you can think of with Compact Disc. The source is not the issue.

With Yamaha amplifiers, they traditionally became flatter in response and offered better noise and distortion as you moved up the range. That said, both your units are in a similar class and I would expect aligned performance.

I suggest feeding the amplifiers with the fixed output RCA (not the variable) for comparison purposes. The 779 is basically a CDP-X77/777 derivative and a truly excellent player.

 

[dman777]

flatter in response and offered better noise and distortion as you moved up the range.

You hit the bullseye on that... the 3200 is really boring. Although, I didn't detect any noise in the 2000a. Maybe a tiny bit of distortion on the 2000a and not the 32000.

 

[restorer-john]

You hit the bullseye on that... the 3200 is really boring.

The trouble is, you have now 'decided' what the 3200 sounds like. You likely expected some massive improvement for all the money you spent, but in reality, competently designed amplifiers shouldn't sound all that different to one another. But differences do exist and can be audible.

I'd live with the 3200 for a while, use it and enjoy it. Upper tier amplifiers are not all about performance, they are also about the user experience, build, finish and overall satisfaction you get from a piece of fine HiFi.

 

[dman777]

The trouble is, you have now 'decided' what the 3200 sounds like. You likely expected some massive improvement for all the money you spent, but in reality, competently designed amplifiers shouldn't sound all that different to one another. But differences do exist and can be audible.

I'd live with the 3200 for a while, use it and enjoy it. Upper tier amplifiers are not all about performance, they are also about the user experience, build, finish and overall satisfaction you get from a piece of fine HiFi.

Yeah it wouldn't hurt so bad if it didn't sound worse than the 2000. If it just sounded the same it would not be so troubling.

I'll have to give it some time like you mentioned.