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Wilson Audio TuneTot Review (high-end bookshelf speaker)

Rate this speaker:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 304 57.5%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 169 31.9%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 37 7.0%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 19 3.6%

  • Total voters
    529

Vladimir Filevski

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I disagree. In Amir's room, you just need to close the port and it would sound like a nice bookshelf that does not need eq. But it would need a pair of of subs that can be equal to the room.
I disagree squared. :) In everyone's room, you just need to throw the Tune Tot through the open window, close the window, and buy some nice bookshelf speakers.
 

Pdxwayne

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I was walking my dog and thought about my experiences in small rooms. I have/had setups in rooms with ~11'x11'x9' dimensions and I always met with big null around 110 to 120 Hz area. SBIR adjustments did not help either. I think maybe this is 3 dimentionals issue and not just a simple one dimensional distance to wall issue.

So, it would mean if I use this speakers in such small rooms, that significantly boosted bass would not sound bloated at all. Instead, the port would help with bass impact feels in small room.

Also, that steep drop below 100 Hz will work great in my small rooms so that I don't need to worry about room modes peaks below 100 Hz. Thus, this is great for people who do not wish to eq the speakers.

It would appear the engineers know what they are doing when designing small speakers for small rooms.
 
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PierreV

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What's not serious? How far do you think people pull out their speakers from the front wall on the average?

This is company marketing picture for this speaker:

TuneTot-105___responsive_2160_1558.jpg


Looks a heck of a lot less than 4 feet to me.

Nice faucet!
I think the water flow could be made less turbulent if it was equalized.
 

Holmz

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I knew you had what to say on that topic ))

It is good for conveying the idioms of English as a second third (etc.) language for our well versed Eu friends.
It is not a bad song by Au pub-music standards.
 

beantownT

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Sabrina is the only feasible one up the line. At 94 pounds, it is "portable" enough to get it measured. There is a remote chance of getting one to test in the future.
this would be awesome. Sabrina or Sabrina X
 

thewas

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My listening spot is always the same and is about 4 feet from each wall. I listened to port open and closed although the latter was brief.
4 feet from a wall is not a good choice for a loudspeaker without a subwoofer and having the same distance to other walls the same makes the SBIR dip even deeper, best is to vary the distance to all walls, floor and ceiling.

Here are the recommendations of Genelec which show why

genelec_page_2_pic3.jpg


and the same from Neumann

neumann_1071370.png


with a subwoofer it would be ok though as both write.

monitorplacement_subwooferbackwall.jpg
 
OP
amirm

amirm

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4 feet is not a good choice for a loudspeaker without a subwoofer and having the same distance to other walls the same makes the SBIR dip even deeper, best is to vary the distance to all walls, floor and ceiling.
I said "about 4 feet." Not that it is exactly that. Distance is not identical to each wall. And ceiling is sloped and goes up quite high. In addition, speaker is often rotated and its acoustic center varies. Those classic calculators rarely give accurate results in real rooms anyways due to varying absorption coefficient of the walls, speaker config, etc.

As I mentioned in my post, I am trying to be reasonable with respect to how people use speakers in their home. In all cases you need to measure in room and not use simple calculators like above.
 

thewas

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I said "about 4 feet." Not that it is exactly that. Distance is not identical to each wall. And ceiling is sloped and goes up quite high. In addition, speaker is often rotated and its acoustic center varies. Those classic calculators rarely give accurate results in real rooms anyways due to varying absorption coefficient of the walls, speaker config, etc.

As I mentioned in my post, I am trying to be reasonable with respect to how people use speakers in their home. In all cases you need to measure in room and not use simple calculators like above.
Still it makes "about 4 feet" one of the poorest choices for listening and especially reviewing loudspeakers for people who care, the audience here is not the average consumer who places one loudspeaker on the floor and the other in the kitchen but people who discuss about SINADs over 100... Also the SBIR frequency barely changes due to varying absorption coefficients but rather the cancellation depth. Also not all being exactly 4 feet like you write but approximately doesn't really help but makes the dips smear into a wider one which is more audible, things you would have seen yourself if you had made and a provided a quick sweep or even better a one minute MMM measurement around your listening position as many had asked in your reviews (and is provided by others like Sound & Recording, sometimes Stereophile, Erin and a couple of others) as it makes often the interpretation of heard results more understandable. At least now it is more clear why you prefer loudspeakers with a rather a bass boost.
 
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BoredErica

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I feel like average person using bookshelf would be using it <2ft from front wall, no? But what about speakers with rear ports? This is all kind of confusing to me.
 

YSDR

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I feel like average person using bookshelf would be using it <2ft from front wall, no? But what about speakers with rear ports? This is all kind of confusing to me.
Loudspeakers with rearfiring ports can be placed close to wall, if the airflow from the port are not restricted, then all is good. Usually a 5-10 cm from the wall is enough for that.
 
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amirm

amirm

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Still it makes "about 4 feet" one of the poorest choices for listening and especially reviewing loudspeakers for people who care, the audience here is not the average consumer who places one loudspeaker on the floor and the other in the kitchen but people who discuss about SINADs over 100... Also the SBIR frequency barely changes due to varying absorption coefficients but rather the cancellation depth.
Again, you are confusing trivial calculators with reality. This is what my room looks like:

index.php


Test speakers go to the right of the left speaker above. So its "back wall" is not a simple concrete wall with infinite height that your simple calculator assumes. Nor is it practical for me or many people in my situation to pull a speaker many feet into the room. Here is Dr. Toole on reality vs trivial calculators (he talks about room modes but hey are just as applicable to SBIR):

1640854333873.png


These are not dedicated spaces as Genelec recommendation assumes. There, sure, you can try to optimize it but again, be very careful about assuming acoustic difference is the same as real distance.

So please don't throw theory at me. I know the difference and have set targets for testing that are reasonable and consistent across all the speaker I test.
 

DanielT

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Again, you are confusing trivial calculators with reality. This is what my room looks like:

index.php


Test speakers go to the right of the left speaker above. So its "back wall" is not a simple concrete wall with infinite height that your simple calculator assumes. Nor is it practical for me or many people in my situation to pull a speaker many feet into the room. Here is Dr. Toole on reality vs trivial calculators (he talks about room modes but hey are just as applicable to SBIR):

View attachment 175516

These are not dedicated spaces as Genelec recommendation assumes. There, sure, you can try to optimize it but again, be very careful about assuming acoustic difference is the same as real distance.

So please don't throw theory at me. I know the difference and have set targets for testing that are reasonable and consistent across all the speaker I test.
Regarding minimizing floors and ceiling reflections.

Hm, I'm wondering when I see your room. Have you tried line speakers that go from floor to ceiling? All speaker elements close together and tight (as tight as possible) to the floor and ceiling? You do not seem to have that high up to your ceiling when the floor-standing speakers are standing right now so line speakers would not be that big.:)

Something like the one in the attached picture (although tweeters may need to be added to them, ...maybe ..). And then from floor to ceiling.
(not mine in the picture).
But it should be tailored and it is probably DIY that applies and it takes time. Then you would have to re-prioritize your time. Hm ...

Just a thought. Always fun to try new solutions.:)
 

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thewas

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Again, you are confusing trivial calculators with reality. This is what my room looks like:
My room has actually even 2 lower slopes, still the SBIRs appear not to far from the calculated ones and your front wall seems high enough to be not such a poor approximation for the corresponding SBIR.

Here is Dr. Toole on reality vs trivial calculators (he talks about room modes but hey are just as applicable to SBIR):
The quote of Toole your provide is like you say about standing waves / room modes where the geometry of all boundaries plays a bigger role compared to a specific SBIR and even in this case talks about "occasionally a glaring error". I know his book and quotes well too,

So please don't throw theory at me.
;-)

I know the difference and have set targets for testing that are reasonable and consistent across all the speaker I test.
In the end only measurements show the full picture. I don't want to say with that that your position definitely isn't good but I have my doubts and its like you say more a compromise for the reason that
Nor is it practical for me or many people in my situation to pull a speaker many feet into the room.
which is very true in many living places and the better solution in many cases is to pull them closer to the front wall and rather EQ the resulting bass boost.

Also the question is when the room constraints don't allow sensible placement if a subjective review makes sense at all, especially when it purely decides on the famous panther ranking which as it can be seen in this review (and some others in the past) is taken by many newbies much too seriously, but that is a long discussion that again belongs to the other thread and hasn't changed anything in the last years...
 

Wesayso

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Regarding minimizing floors and ceiling reflections.

Hm, I'm wondering when I see your room. Have you tried line speakers that go from floor to ceiling? All speaker elements close together and tight (as tight as possible) to the floor and ceiling? You do not seem to have that high up to your ceiling when the floor-standing speakers are standing right now so line speakers would not be that big.:)

Something like the one in the attached picture (although tweeters may need to be added to them, ...maybe ..). And then from floor to ceiling.
(not mine in the picture).
But it should be tailored and it is probably DIY that applies and it takes time. Then you would have to re-prioritize your time. Hm ...

Just a thought. Always fun to try new solutions.:)
I do recognize that setup :)

There's more than meets the eye though, let's see a view from above:
Room-a-small.jpg

Behind the curtain is a huge damping panel. The other side has the same, a curtain with a damping panel behind it.
I'm way too close to the back wall, so there's a damping panel on that wall as well.
(hidden in plain sight disguised as a Led Zeppelin poster)

If you've got to deal with the room you have, so better make sure whatever speaker concept you pick can actually "work with" the room!
The room has been renovated recently and subs were added quite a while ago. All of it DIY, that's part of the fun for me.
updatepanel.jpg

The arrays do have filters in them making them act as a frequency shaded array, meaning only the center (ear height) drivers play full range.
If we look at how that translates to a 'Harman like' graph it doesn't look too bad:
standardized listeningwindow.jpg

Enough off topic though...
The point is: choose the speaker that works with the room...
 

MrHifiTunes

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There is no 10-15dB dip in the 1-3 kHz range!
I suspect you don't realize that the measurement below is made only to show the woofer and port contribution below some 500Hz - it is not intended to show the whole frequency response at the listening distance (under anechoic conditions):
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nse-stand-mount-bookshelf-speaker-png.173762/

Frequency response at the listening distance is shown at the first graph, here:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nse-stand-mount-bookshelf-speaker-png.173761/
Also, estimated in-room response here:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...response-stand-mount-bookshelf-sp-png.173764/
So, no 10-15dB dip in the 1-3 kHz range!
Thanks for carifying things.

I was misslead by that graph. Strange why it has to take so long before someone pointed me that.
I reposted that graph many times and tried to give as much information as possible to make my view clear.

Anyway now it makes more sense.
I couldnt got over the idea that no one say something about that dip that I saw.
I couldn't relate that dip with the smooth in room response and tried to find somehow an answer for it.
 

MrHifiTunes

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Actually, TuneTot is literary literally a bookshelf loudspeaker, not intended for stand-mounting away from walls.
From the Tune Tot manual: "TuneTot is designed to be used primarily on bookshelves, credenzas, counters and desk tops." i.e. close to back wall, or on big flat horizontal plate. Not that it will help it much, but anyway...
Yes, you mention in one of the comments I post that real wall re-reinforcement would lift the area 200-600 Hz. (600 where baffle step would start I assume)
Why it doesnt have that much effect below 200 Hz? Just trying to understand and learn.
 
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