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Why people still use tube amps when there are plenty of tubes already used in the making of music

Busted. :facepalm: I played a little (too) fast and loose with my reply. Thanks for weighing in!
Upon reflection, I was probably thinking more about the "front end" of my own SCA-35 (Dynaco's little PP EL84 integrated), which is pretty rudimentary.
If memory serves, it was the same 7199 stage but with even an easier drive requirement. Again, purely from memory but if so, it was far more than adequate for the purpose.

The SCA-35 was a terrific amp.
 
If memory serves, it was the same 7199 stage but with even an easier drive requirement. Again, purely from memory but if so, it was far more than adequate for the purpose.

The SCA-35 was a terrific amp.
The st-35 stereo power amp is pretty terrific, yes. The SCA-35 integrated is nice, but kind of "value engineered" (which is  not to say "muntzed").

My SCA-35 is fully functional (rehabbed) but is currently pulling time as a shelf queen -- as shown above. ;)
I am a sucker for pp EL84 amplifiers. :cool:

PS My recollection is that microphonics can be a thing in the SCA-35 -- but I haven't had mine lit up (ahem fired up) for quite some time. I did source some pretty healthy 7199s for it from a regional source of some repute.

manual for the SCA-35 is available, e.g., at:
:rolleyes:
 
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You may be thinking of the ST-35, which used a 7247 set up as a triode voltage amp direct couple to a cathodyne. The open loop gain was... marginal.
 
You may be thinking of the ST-35, which used a 7247 set up as a triode voltage amp direct couple to a cathodyne. The open loop gain was... marginal.
Wasn't the 7247 a duotriode that consisted of half a 12AX7 and half a 12AU7?
 
Wasn't the 7247 a duotriode that consisted of half a 12AX7 and half a 12AU7?
Exactly. They used the "12AX7" half as the voltage amp instead of the pentode side of the 7199. Significantly lower gain, so that reduced the feedback.
 
I remember making an adaptor for my ST-35. The 7247 was getting too expensive, so I made a pair of adaptors consisting of two 9-pin sockets on top and a nine pin male plug that would fit the original 9 pin socket for the 7247. A 12AX7 went in one of the two sockets and a 12AU7 went into the other socket. I lit up only the half of the tubes being used in the two sockets. When the pair of tubes fizzled out, I plugged in the other socket assembly and put the two tubes into that, using the unused halves of the tubes for a second go-around
 
It was the preceding string of four condescending and sarcastic jibes from yourself that had me wondering...
 
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It was the preceding string of four condescending and sarcastic jibes from yourself that had me wondering...
Heavens, *four* jibes in the space of a few minutes? Alert the medics.
 
The st-35 stereo power amp is pretty terrific, yes. The SCA-35 integrated is nice, but kind of "value engineered" (which is  not to say "muntzed").

My SCA-35 is fully functional (rehabbed) but is currently pulling time as a shelf queen -- as shown above. ;)
I am a sucker for pp EL84 amplifiers. :cool:

PS My recollection is that microphonics can be a thing in the SCA-35 -- but I haven't had mine lit up (ahem fired up) for quite some time. I did source some pretty healthy 7199s for it from a regional source of some repute.

manual for the SCA-35 is available, e.g., at:
:rolleyes:
The SCA35 in my possession is a nice integrated but in my experience isn’t as clean and clear sounding as the PAS2/MKIV combo. I think the tone section is a little muddy. It acted mostly as a stand in when the main system was down, and also worked to power a pair of remote speakers.
 
The SCA35 in my possession is a nice integrated but in my experience isn’t as clean and clear sounding as the PAS2/MKIV combo. I think the tone section is a little muddy. It acted mostly as a stand in when the main system was down, and also worked to power a pair of remote speakers.
Speaking of value engineering: the application of PECs for the tone controls on the SCA-35 probably didn't help. ;)

random internet photo of some Centralab PECs:
1729285504681.jpeg
 
I would argue there is no "tube sound" if the tube gear is well designed. To me tubes are like LP's..
fun and interesting and they can sound fine but due to many psycological factors people attach "magic" to them.
After 50+ years in this hobby, I do not find that lovers of valve amps believe they are magic at all, just different and it's a difference they happen to like. Suffering from a sensitivity to sibilance I find most solid state amplifiers more sibilant than good tube amplifiers with the right tubes. The problem with saying measurement can tell you if you will like the sound or not, is just not true. Measuring distortion at quantum above what a human can actually hear surely predicts very little.
 
After 50+ years in this hobby, I do not find that lovers of valve amps believe they are magic at all, just different and it's a difference they happen to like. Suffering from a sensitivity to sibilance I find most solid state amplifiers more sibilant than good tube amplifiers with the right tubes. The problem with saying measurement can tell you if you will like the sound or not, is just not true. Measuring distortion at quantum above what a human can actually hear surely predicts very little.
Preference is fine - but tubes are a very expensive way to control things like sibilance. Which in many cases is a frequency response issue, easily (and much more cost effectively fixed) with DSP.

I would also think that trying to fix FR problems using tube amps is. a bti of a crapshoot - since it will depend heavily on the interaction of the amps output impedance with your own speakers impedance characteristic.

I've nothing particularly against tube amps. I'd quite like one - if only for the aesthetic. I'm just not prepared to pay the cost of entry.
 
Tube amps really do well if you are a home constructor and build your own. The circuitry of a tube amp is simple compared to that of a solid state design. The stages are usually isolated from each other with coupling caps, so any damage that may occur tends to be isolated to one section of the amplifier. With a direct coupled, as they usually are, solid state amp, a failure can quickly propagate throughout all the stages, resulting in widespread damage to the amplifier. Only problem I see with constructing a tube amp is the presence of lethally high voltages, whereas in the SS amp, voltages tend to be low and not lethal as long as you stay away from the primary side of the power transformer.
 
Tube amps really do well if you are a home constructor and build your own. The circuitry of a tube amp is simple compared to that of a solid state design. The stages are usually isolated from each other with coupling caps, so any damage that may occur tends to be isolated to one section of the amplifier. With a direct coupled, as they usually are, solid state amp, a failure can quickly propagate throughout all the stages, resulting in widespread damage to the amplifier. Only problem I see with constructing a tube amp is the presence of lethally high voltages, whereas in the SS amp, voltages tend to be low and not lethal as long as you stay away from the primary side of the power transformer.
Although it is implicit in @egellings apt comments, a knock-on benefit of the simplicity and 'staging' of (most) vacuum tube audio amplifiers makes 'em easy to troubleshoot, too. That, and the ready availability of (most, many, or in some cases all) parts as new production* makes 'em about as future proof as any "technology" can be**.

EDIT: Oh, that lethal voltages thing. :) Many things that nominally normal folks do all the time are extremely hazardous unless one is very careful. Driving an automobile fairly leaps to mind. ;)

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* E.g., the 2A3 direct heated (EDIT) high transconductance power triode, as far as I can tell, has been in continuous production (somewhere in the world) since RCA introduced the single-plate 2A3 in 1933.
** OK, mechanical clocks and watches, too -- I think the parallels 'twixt vacuum tube audio components and mechanical timepieces in terms of why they still exist and hold fascination for some folks are substantial & significant. :)
 
Only problem I see with constructing a tube amp is the presence of lethally high voltages

That's what has kept me away. I don't have the knowledge to confidently deal with plate voltage that might be 600v, and I'm not motivated enough to climb that learning curve.
 
Although it is implicit in @egellings apt comments, a knock-on benefit of the simplicity and 'staging' of (most) vacuum tube audio amplifiers makes 'em easy to troubleshoot, too. That, and the ready availability of (most, many, or in some cases all) parts as new production* makes 'em about as future proof as any "technology" can be**.

EDIT: Oh, that lethal voltages thing. :) Many things that nominally normal folks do all the time are extremely hazardous unless one is very careful. Driving an automobile fairly leaps to mind. ;)

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* E.g., the 2A3 direct heated (EDIT) high transconductance power triode, as far as I can tell, has been in continuous production (somewhere in the world) since RCA introduced the single-plate 2A3 in 1933.
** OK, mechanical clocks and watches, too -- I think the parallels 'twixt vacuum tube audio components and mechanical timepieces in terms of why they still exist and hold fascination for some folks are substantial & significant. :)
We're kinda locked into driving automobiles in order to go anywhere, whereas tube amps are an optional hobby interest. I happen to enjoy my home brewed circlotron tube amps myself. They were fun to put together, and they reward me with music. How cool is that?
 
Yeah, the corollary of the simplicity (and the generally large size of the components) makes DIY rather more tractable than, e.g., building a DAC from discrete components. ;) It feels good to build stuff that does something -- especially if it does that thing fairly well!

Well, I guess my point, if I had one ;) was that humans tend to be almost amazingly poor at judging (relative) risks. This wisdom was imparted to me in a seminar by Bruce Ames (of "Ames Test" fame) in my grad school days. He was, at least as I remember the talk, kind of disgruntled by (or maybe about?) the mis-application of Ames Test data (which essentially used bacterial mutations as a screen for mutagenic compounds. The larger community (mis)took the Ames Test as a surrogate marker to predict carcinogenicity in humans, which kind of missed the point. A number of (probably) useful chemicals were thrown under the bus due to Ames Test positivity.

In those days (early 80s) he concluded his talks with a slide showing the relative risks of various activities. His readout was the amount of time to have a given chance of mortality (probably 50%) when engaging in certain activities. The time scale varied dramatically, from ca. a year for sitting in a chair to seconds for riding a motorcycle.
His point was that we tend to drastically misjudge the relative risks of activities -- I think about the hoopla over microwave radiation in the form of cell phones, e.g.

I never found a copy of his slide, sadly, but I did find a kind of similar one in a Boston Globe article some years back.

 
Speaking of hazardous activities, I am reminded of an FAQ sign in the glassblowing facility (factory is overstating things!) at Simon Pearce Glassworks across the river from us in Windsor, VT.
One of the Q & A on the sign goes something like this:

Q: Do the glassblowers ever burn themselves?
A: Only once.

Electrocution's like that, too. :cool: :eek::facepalm:

The studio/store in Windsor is a bit of a tourist trap, but it's well worth a visit to watch glassware being made -- and their products are absolutely gorgeous.
They have very nice, chi-chi stores, with their main store in Queechee, VT featuring a very good restaraunt and an amazing setting.

Either (or both) is/are excellent spots to visit here in the Upper Valley -- and just a half-hour or so from us... just sayin' ;)


EDIT: Storms have not been kind to the center of Queechee in recent years. :( Indeed, the guy who built our house had his office and shop a couple of doors down from Simon Pearce. Tropical Storm Irene totalled his offices, while leaving Simon Pearce mostly unscathed... but it looks like this year's tranche of heavy rains was tough on Simon Pearce in Queechee, too. :(
 
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