Or the lure of the glowing tubes. Blind listening and it's just the distortion and possibly changed frequency response from the high output impedance.
S
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Why people still use tube amps when there are plenty of tubes already used in the making of music
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S
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Indeed.
E.g., mouthfeel is a big thing.
All sorts of interesting compounds (e.g., polysaccharides from various sources) are used as cost-effective modifiers to make them feel right in one's mouth.
In case anyone ever wonders why there's xanthan gum in one's salad dressing -- or in one's ice cream.
Ice cream up here is mostly bovine-derived, FWIW. New Englanders take their (our) ice cream very seriously.
For one type of music and with one small group of listeners.
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Admittedly not the largest group of test subjects, but I question whether this necessarily negates it's findings.
Also, interesting how genre of music doesn't seem to be considered of importance in other tests.
What is it's relevance here, yet not in other blind tests do you think?
Also, interesting how genre of music doesn't seem to be considered of importance in other tests.
What is it's relevance here, yet not in other blind tests do you think?
Some of the posts following the OP discuss that.
kemmler3D
Master Contributor
None of this is remotely surprising to anyone who has spent time mixing / recording music. There is an entire industry of companies selling plugins (or hardware boxes) designed solely for adding distortion to musical content. Tracks are often considered incomplete if a little distortion isn't added here or there.
So the fact that you can still eke out a little subjective improvement by adding more distortion after the mixing is done isn't a surprise.
I don't think anyone is really making the blanket statement "harmonic distortion sounds bad", either. Obviously this is not broadly true unless it gets extreme.
There is simply a clash between philosophies: Should an amp reproduce the music with as little alteration as possible (the prevailing view here) or should it enhance the music by distorting it somehow? (the implicit prevailing view on many other forums.)
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Indeed. However I think that there are quite a few people, here and elsewhere, who happen to like to listen to both SS and valves. And why not...
It's just a hobby.
kemmler3D
Master Contributor
Sure, to me what's important is to know what you are doing to the sound and why. So audio science (and Audio Science Review) are important to that, measurements, thresholds of audibility, etc. It's unfortunate that people who are into valves also tend to be into "audio magic" instead of audio science. You can definitely analyze the output of a tube amp and figure out what you like about it.
kemmler3D
Master Contributor
It's a matter of your philosophy. You either strive for accuracy, or you strive for whatever sounds good to you, accurate or not.
I don't think either approach can be objectively defined as more "right" than the other.
MattHooper
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And dictionaries reflect changing use of words.
My response was a bit cheeky, but the main point was, I personally would consider pretty much anyone attracted to a forum like this to be an audiophile.
But I am happy to use their own “ preferred pronouns” if they think of themselves otherwise.
I am interested in high quality audio reproduction, ( if anyone wonders why I am here).
Keith
Keith
The difficulty there is defining high quality! The most accurate or the most pleasing?
S.
I want to be able to stroke Patricia Barbers thigh in my own living room.
Keith
oops wrong forum
Keith
oops wrong forum
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Fidelity is a useful word. Merriam Webster defines it as:
1a: the quality or state of being faithful
his fidelity to his wife
1b: accuracy in details : exactness
The movie's director insisted on total fidelity to the book.
2: the degree to which an electronic device (such as a record player, radio, or television) accurately reproduces its effect (such as sound or picture)
Since pleasing can only be in the ear of the listener - quality has to by judged by the traditional measures for HIFI - noise, distortion, frequency response.
Else we have no universal definition - just preference which varies from person to person.
Exactly. That was really my point. I can understand High Quality objectively, the lowest/highest or whatever, as measured. Subjectively, it means whatever one wants it to mean, and consequently only of value to the individual. That's why we get so many of the 'which is better' type questions and arguements on subjective forums as there's no agreed definition of what 'better' or 'high quality' means.
S
I have done a well controlled ABX between a engineered tube amp (Dynaco ST-70) and a high performance SS amp (Neurochrome Mod 86) and could not tell them apart even though I could measure differences. The subtle differences being discussed here seem unlikely to be audible with music playing (the add distortion tests on the internet show most people need very high distortion added to music, like >5%, for it to be audible) even though there are measurable differences. I don't know how to "objectively" test this but my assertion is that 90%+ of perceived "tube sound" is sighted bias.
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