Why people still use tube amps when there are plenty of tubes already used in the making of music

[Henry53]

Preference is fine - but tubes are a very expensive way to control things like sibilance. Which in many cases is a frequency response issue, easily (and much more cost effectively fixed) with DSP.

I would also think that trying to fix FR problems using tube amps is. a bti of a crapshoot - since it will depend heavily on the interaction of the amps output impedance with your own speakers impedance characteristic.

I've nothing particularly against tube amps. I'd quite like one - if only for the aesthetic. I'm just not prepared to pay the cost of entry.

Preference is fine - but tubes are a very expensive way to control things like sibilance. Which in many cases is a frequency response issue, easily (and much more cost effectively fixed) with DSP.

I would also think that trying to fix FR problems using tube amps is. a bti of a crapshoot - since it will depend heavily on the interaction of the amps output impedance with your own speakers impedance characteristic.

I've nothing particularly against tube amps. I'd quite like one - if only for the aesthetic. I'm just not prepared to pay the cost of entry.

Never found any DSP that resolves sibilance, without screwing other things, certainly tried DSP with Vincent Hybrid pre/ power and my Rotel pre/power, nil effect on sibilance. I guess this is a ludicrously expensive pastime, even to devotees, certainly in 50+ years I've spent enormous amounts of time and money getting what I like, I like my Primaluna EVO 400 better than any other amp ever owned and the vast majority listened to. In the end listening is what it's bought for. For me the AUD$6000 I spent was a better bet than AUS$6000 on any SS amp I have listened to. The ability to change between triode and ultra linear, as the music suits is a bonus although 90%+ is on triode. Toyed with far more expensive Naim and Chord amps, just not for me.

 

[MattHooper]

Preference is fine - but tubes are a very expensive way to control things like sibilance. Which in many cases is a frequency response issue, easily (and much more cost effectively fixed) with DSP.

That is always a sensible approach.

But as I reported before, in my own case using my Digital parametric EQ I couldn’t replicate the character I perceived from my tube amplification.

In the case of sibilance that might’ve been thinner and harder with solid state amplification (which was of course neutral),
with the tube amps tended to thicken and soft and slightly, and “ sit back into” the voice rather than sounding detached in a mechanical way. Overall, the sound subtly became a bit more forward and and “ lightened sounding” so becoming a bit more vivid, yet at the very same time, it became more relaxed sounding.

This simultaneous combination of “ more vivid, yet more relaxed” was so uncommon to me it almost a bit magical. How is it doing this? My speculation was some mix of frequency response deviations, along with perhaps some form of added distortion, which together I was having a hard time mimicking using a solid-state amp and EQ.

(All ASR caveats in the above assumed)

 

[SIY]

Never found any DSP that resolves sibilance, without screwing other things, certainly tried DSP with Vincent Hybrid pre/ power and my Rotel pre/power, nil effect on sibilance. I guess this is a ludicrously expensive pastime, even to devotees, certainly in 50+ years I've spent enormous amounts of time and money getting what I like, I like my Primaluna EVO 400 better than any other amp ever owned and the vast majority listened to. In the end listening is what it's bought for. For me the AUD$6000 I spent was a better bet than AUS$6000 on any SS amp I have listened to. The ability to change between triode and ultra linear, as the music suits is a bonus although 90%+ is on triode. Toyed with far more expensive Naim and Chord amps, just not for me.

If it keeps you off the streets and out of trouble, it's a net positive.

 

[mudkip2025]

Tube amps can sound good, they are historically relevant to our hobby and they cast a romantic glow. Try them some time on a date, they’re chick magnets.

have you seen my tube amp, m'lady?

 

[Pancreas]

tubes amp should have remained for guitars lol

 

[MattHooper]

tubes amp should have remained for guitars lol

Blasphemer!!

You clearly haven’t seen the light!

 

[Pancreas]

Blasphemer!!

You clearly haven’t seen the light!

what is he admiring or imagining those erect devices are

what the average audiopile does i wonder

 

[mhardy6647]

Blasphemer!!

You clearly haven’t seen the light!

It's kind of a yellow-ish orange...



unless the filament's thoriated tungsten, of course.

 

[MattHooper]

It's kind of a yellow-ish orange...



unless the filament's thoriated tungsten, of course.

Hallelujah!

(Btw @mhardy6647 - just testing how much of a tube geek you are: can you look at those tubes and immediately know what type of tubes they are?)

 

[mhardy6647]

They're dual triodes... but beyond that, nope.
12AX7 or 12AU7 or 12AT7 or... (or their European counterparts)... or 6EU7 or 6922/7308/6DJ8 or...

 

[MattHooper]

They're dual triodes... but beyond that, nope.
12AX7 or 12AU7 or 12AT7 or... (or their European counterparts)... or 6EU7 or 6922/7308/6DJ8 or...

Ok, just testing. You’d be much better than I am at recognizing tubes. That’s CJ premier 16 LS2 preamp. Tubes: 6 Electro-Harmonix Gold Pin 6922

At one point, I tried some “ recommended” NOS tubes instead, and I did not like the sound. That was an expensive mistake.

 

[Mocie]

I don't get why people love tube amps so much.

It's really as simple as people enjoy what sounds good to them. Harman target isn't as dominant in listening preferences as it was where the study initially came out, and we can see that reflected in both DCA's revisions this year and the slew of targets content creators are putting out themselves.

Stuff like ZMF and tube amps don't conform to the science or the idea of perfect reproduction, but as long as people enjoy the sound they'll always come back to them.

 

[MattHooper]

It's really as simple as people enjoy what sounds good to them. Harman target isn't as dominant in listening preferences as it was where the study initially came out, and we can see that reflected in both DCA's revisions this year and the slew of targets content creators are putting out themselves.

Stuff like ZMF and tube amps don't conform to the science or the idea of perfect reproduction, but as long as people enjoy the sound they'll always come back to them.

There’s also the consideration that, it seems to me that possibly most tube amplifiers in there audiophile applications are making subtle alterations of the signal at best - not knocking the sound profile or frequency profile all out of whack. So the introduction of a tube amplifier may make a signal that is slightly less accurate, but in the big picture the speakers are probably playing very similar to how they would with a neutral, solid state amplifier.

 

[JohnnyAudio]

The tube heaters help warm the house.

 

[Adis]

That's their primary function.
Some misuse them as amplifiers.

 

[egellings]

If you like tube amplifiers, then enjoy them. If you don't, simply pass them by. If done right, they can have distortion levels that are below audibility. I designed & built my own pair of monoblock circlotron-style power amps for home stereo use, including winding and stacking the ridiculously oversized power transformers and output transformers, which use a multifilar winding technique rather than a sectionalized approach. The circlotron topology allows the multifilar (a flat ribbon of magnet wires, with some wires in the ribbon being primary, and some being secondary sections) winding approach. This winding technique works best with low turns ratio transformers (8:1 in my amplifiers), which the circlotron approach can use. Winding and interconnection of wires in a high turns ratio multifilar wound transformer quickly becomes unmanageable. I have the output transformer patented, although not under my name due to workplace policies regarding employee patents, even when the patented work was not done using company premises, equipment or time. So I like tube amps because I gits to say, "Made it muh self!". So for me, the draw of tube amplifiers was making my own. Plus, there's the draw of the glowing bulbs and the look of a high quality fit & finish, so they're not eyesores. If I were a non-engineering oriented audio enthusiast, I would likely have purchased a bipolar junction transistor type amplifier. I would not recommend a tube amplifier to anyone who would like a good sounding setup but is not interested in the technology behind it because tube amps are a relatively high maintenance kind of device compared to a solid state one. The big take-home is to enjoy the music though whatever technology that tickles your fancy.

 

[MattHooper]

That's their primary function.
Some misuse them as amplifiers.

LOL. Tell us how you really feel.

 

[Pancreas]

It’s also part of the audiophile snobbery.

Those erect devices show the world that you are serious about your audio compared to peasants with just headphones or small DAC

I for one don’t consider audiophile the people who primarily use headphones and no speakers

They be spending thousand+ on headphones, tube amp, dac etc but have no speakers or some potato ones

How can you call yourself a true audiophile but mainly use headphones

 

[Chr1]

potato speakers for the win

 

[egellings]

Both headphones and speakers are capable of audiophile-grade sound. It's the sound, not the equipment that matters. Some audiophiles like music, others like equipment for which the music is but a test signal.