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Are tubes more musical?

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So when it comes to any part of the reproduction chain, the most "musical" component has to be that which delivers the source in the most accurate way without debate.
Any time we let any regard for "sounds good to me" enter the evaluation, without concern for the science of the products actual performance in the chain, we've lost all hope for "musicality" in the reproduction. It all becomes just a fun house mirror that reflects an image that makes us smile. ;)
From a signal fidelity point ... sure.
For electronics ... also sure that would be preferred. Coloration and effects or compensations are easily added and are not permanently in the chain.
That said ... some people prefer to always have the same 'sauce' pored over everything and they may enjoy it and say it 'sounds' better where it is merely a preference they have and not actually 'better' in a signal fidelity way.

After that it becomes fuzzy as into play come transducers and the circumstances they are used under. There is a wide range of variables and influences here.
The most 'die-hard' signal = everything purists will certainly be using DSP, room conditioning and WAF unfriendly speaker positioning in rooms to do that.
They will pick a 'target' that suits their needs/preference and may well use microphones or measurements from others.
What they hear is what they 'know' is the purest way (regardless how many errors or wrong choices have been made) and crappy recordings will sound crappy because they are crappy.

That said... a lot of audiophiles and audiophools will choose not to go this route and go for maximum enjoyment by the endless search for 'good sounding components' and 'synergy' and maybe compensate 'tone' a little with speakers, slight change of placement, auditioning (also with headphones) and it may well be that they prefer 'colored' gear while getting the 'sound' they want and preferably 'spice up' the crappy recordings this way a little for maximum enjoyment. Signal fidelity is not the goal but enjoyment is. Tonal accuracy as they prefer and not how it is determined in a studio (which may or may not be done well anyway).

Totally different use cases and as long as it sounds great it 'sounds better' to them where the 'purists' want the sound replicated from the available signal and when the studios 'effed up' the sound should show that and not gloss things over.

For this reason the debate will never end.

People like @genesisaudiorack and even @MattHooper will look at things in a different way than 'signal purists' and the words 'sounds better' has a different meaning.

It should be clear that ASR is about optimal signal fidelity where other people look at this differently.
I would say .... be careful with the words 'better' in relation to sound... preferred would be a better choice of words and may result in less aggressive back and forth-s.
 
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It does indeed depend, and I know of good tube amplifiers, but mostly they are problematic I fear. And terribly wasteful.
 
Amplifiers are a solved problem
Other, apparently, than the nagging little appendix of how to meaningfully measure their output power. :rolleyes: ;)

It does indeed depend, and I know of good tube amplifiers, but mostly they are problematic I fear. And terribly wasteful.
Although I'd suggest that it can also be argued that designing and manufacturing essentially irreparable (and/or quickly obsoleted) electronics is also terribly wasteful -- but it's also terribly fashionable these days.
 
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Other, apparently, than the nagging little appendix of how to meaningfully measure their output power. :rolleyes: ;)


Although I'd suggest that it can also be argued that designing and manufacturing essentially irreparable (and/or quickly obsoleted) electronics is also terribly wasteful -- but it's also terribly fashionable these days.
Yes modern electronics is much harder to repair, but if well designed and made it can last longer than older gear. Please do not be too nostalgic about old audio gear. But since amplifiers have been essentially transparent for a long time, they are not obsoleted. I still use a refurbished Quad 606-2 power amplifier from the late 1980's. Conversely, my Quad 33 preamp from 1970 has been obsolete for quite a while, and has been replaced by a much better made RME ADI-2 DAC.
 
Ok, you've expressed your view but on this forum we need more than opinion.

Going forwards please post more than anecdote and opinion. Properly conducted listening tests or measurements . Thanks
i have posted my experience and my listening tests ive encountered. please read.
 
It's going to be difficult to convince someone with that much sunk, that they've bought a lemon.
maybe its just you. maybe youre the issue. i dont have any issues. i was sure about that since ive spent time in other listening rooms, and went to shjop to look at new gear. and it all sounded dull. so youre telling me i am wrong that i didnt like other amps? you were there to experience what i experienced? sounds like youre just jealous and using nit picking to attack people whgo like their gear. maybe youre just a anti-tubite
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the anti-tubites in here are religious haters. thats okay. if i encounter a better amp ill let you guys know. still sounds better than all the solid state units ive personally heard with exception to some really expensive solid state.
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Time for some proper scientific argument: personal experience does not count. And time for a course in grammar and spelling. Please, this many mistakes is an insult to the readership.
 
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Time for some proper scientific argument: personal experience does not count. And time for a course in grammar and spelling. Please, this many mistakes is an insult to the readership.
its a undeserved arrogance to have Grammatical Pedantry Syndrome. its sorta a illness
 
i have posted my experience and my listening tests ive encountered. please read.
I've got a better idea . Read up on controlled listening tests and how to do them. Enjoy a couple of weeks away from this thread whilst you are doing that , then come back and try again.

Edit . Actually , this thread can only really lead to the kind of discussion that's been had for the last few pages so I'm closing it.

I still encourage you to heed this advice for other threads though .

I did read . Did you ? Properly conducted was the cue .

"Going forwards please post more than anecdote and opinion. Properly conducted listening tests or measurements . Thanks"
 
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Time to close this thread full of "alternative facts". Amplifiers are a solved problem, and tubes mostly measure badly, hence sound worse, cost more, and waste energy.
I agree with you.
The bar for opening a thread is way too low on ASR. The OP of this thread never once participated, likely never intended to participate, likely just wanted to make an ASR-gaslighting thread, encouraging everybody to enter an alternate reality and forget that electronics and acoustics are a science-driven endeavor. It could have been a good faith question, if it had been "What are actual distinguishing features of tube sound?" But no, this thread might have been better titled "Do tubes have more PRaT?"

This type of thread is never going to get to what the actual sound of tubes is, and was likely designed as a platform for an extended food-fight over anecdotes, semantics, and bad-faith arguments.

I enjoy music and tubes, but this thread is nauseating, should have been shut down and deleted ages ago. The noise on ASR has really overrun the signal.
 
I agree with you.
The bar for opening a thread is way too low on ASR. The OP of this thread never once participated, likely never intended to participate, likely just wanted to make an ASR-gaslighting thread, encouraging everybody to enter an alternate reality and forget that electronics and acoustics are a science-driven endeavor. It could have been a good faith question, if it had been "What are actual distinguishing features of tube sound?" But no, this thread might have been better titled "Do tubes have more PRaT?"

This type of thread is never going to get to what the actual sound of tubes is, and was likely designed as a platform for an extended food-fight over anecdotes, semantics, and bad-faith arguments.

I enjoy music and tubes, but this thread is nauseating, should have been shut down and deleted ages ago. The noise on ASR has really overrun the signal.

At this point I have to agree . It's done .
 
the anti-tubites in here are religious haters. thats okay. if i encounter a better amp ill let you guys know. still sounds better than all the solid state units ive personally heard with exception to some really expensive solid state.View attachment 414861
Going down the cult accusation route gets some sanction. So don't.
 
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