Even if you know what you are doing, you can make a mistake and damage things. Or push a product beyond its (undocumented) limit.
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Who has an AP and willing to do measurements for other ASR members, raise your hand
- Thread starter CleanSound
- Start date
Well, I could ask them directly, then.
They already sent me several products. But honestly, measuring another Audio-GD product is somewhat like beating a dead horse IMHO. They just suck, I regret.
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Can't wait, it feels as if I now have some sort of super power. Feel like I can walk around with my chest pumped out.
May start a dedicated/consolidated thread on how to set it up and use it after I learn, however long that may take.
It will be the best investment you make because it will help you sort out tweaks for your own personal gear, assess new purchases objectively in addition to correlate subjective experiences with objective measurements.
Congrats on the QuantAsylum decision. You do get what you pay for. It’s a premium product to the E1DA, even if it doesn’t hit that last bit of SINAD.
In the mean-time, just use a laptop line-in to play with Multitone software. The numbers won’t be that helpful yet, but it gets you through the familiarity of the app. (Which is pretty easy)
Thank You,Well, I could ask them directly, then.
They already sent me several products. But honestly, measuring another Audio-GD product is somewhat beating a dead horse IMHO. They just suck, I regret.
but now the money has gone to other stuff
I'm sure for the better.
computer-audiophile
Major Contributor
Measuring audio equipment as a hobby seems like a strange hobby to me. However, I know a colleague who says he prefers measuring to listening to music. No kidding! He used to be a service technician in the medical technology field and probably can't stop this habit since he retired. But he also builds devices himself and tries out unusual circuits. I can understand the latter better.
P.S. He owns professional audio analyzers from Rohde & Schwarz
P.S. He owns professional audio analyzers from Rohde & Schwarz
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I think it’s no different than tuning a car for more horsepower while also enjoying a leisurely scenic drive. Or baking cookies for someone else even if you’re not hungry at the moment.
You have described decades of audio experience, design of your own equipment, so things you have a sixth sense for, may not be so straightforward.
It’s clear that products don’t have 100% guarantee that they will meet spec. People will buy used or vintage gear that can be assessed with measurements. And for me, correlating subjective impressions with objective measurements helps separate sighted bias from appreciation of subtleties.
OK... Please ask yourself how others could take benefit of the data, then ? How wouldn't it be compatible with the listening to music hobby for the tester ? (by the way, with the equipment he personally measured and approved as being actually good for this purpose)
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computer-audiophile
Major Contributor
I can understand your arguments well and can also accept them.
On the other hand, the OP writes that he would like to have a high-quality YAMAHA amplifier measured. In this case, I would not question the manufacturer's technical data and see no additional benefit if they were perhaps presented in more detail. In the end, it only depends on whether the sound is pleasing and whether the combination with the other devices fits.
You forgot the part about the gray-matter in here:
I think your ASR efforts are having a great impact on manufacturers to speak the truth in their specifications.
Technically, and by all rights, I hope that a "second opinion" for believing manufacturers specifications are becoming moot.
Thank You @amirm!
Give us the address and he will be overwhelmed
OP
- Thread Starter
- #53
Here is the problem. I have discovered that one particular manufacturer of a product that I own (through ASR nevertheless) has blatantly lied about their specs, I trust no manufacturer. Two, any specs provided by any manufacturer is never comprehensive.
If one is really into this hobby, I particularly do not find it strange to be able to measure your own HiFi gear, not much different than checking the tire pressure of your car, if you are a car guy.
computer-audiophile
Major Contributor
Besides having the equipment for that it takes a lot of experience and knowledge to make correct audio measurements. Maybe you have this knowledge, then it is good. Otherwise, it needs another reliable authority that is more trustworthy than the manufacturer, such as YAMAHA e.g.
The comparison with the tyre pressure test is funny or naive.
Any layman can do that. It is also not trivial to correctly record the performance of a car in detail.
There’s no need to “gate keep” measuring gear. Yes, for speaker level stuff where they may be some danger involved but not line level stuff.
Yamaha is trustworthy, but if the RIAA says it’s off my 0.5 dB, can you see the curve to decide if there’s a good cartridge that’s a match. You can see how it performs at low power.
If you got a refurbished or second hand unit, you can ensure your product still meets spec?
It’s actually even more important to measure trustworthy gear since trustworthy companies are very conservative.
Look at the 0.0004% THD+N of
versus the official spec of 0.0050%
Or take the Marantz PM-10. Rated at 200 watts into 8 ohms but actually does 625 W sustained and over 700W short term…
OP
- Thread Starter
- #56
I am not an analog guy and my knowledge of digital circuitry is outdated by over 20 years. So yeah, it's going to be a learning curve, but there are so much resources on the internet nowadays (and people who's done it before are willing to help, like here on ASR), so I am not too too concern about learning. I am more concern how much time it will take, time is everyone's limitation.
Now if I get everything down with the QA403, I plan to post a step-by-step guide here, so that others who are also interested, can just go to one place to get started.
I use tire pressure for a simple comparison. How about upgrading the suspension of your Jeep for off-roading?
LoL,
I paid part of my schooling by "rolling" tires, at a podunk Sears AutoShop...
...which - later - allowed me to "play" with one of the most expensive, most SOTA, 2-rack suite, of Brüel & Kjær audio equipment in the world, for a few years, on loan to us by NSA.
I consider those years as "manual" labor... like your proverbial "layman" would do.
I've seen more valve stems, tires, and test equipment buttons to press, before the NI LabView software was invented.
With that mentality, we were able to turn those years of twisting knobs (in seedy dark labs) to teach any naïve techie to "Just push the damn button" and the software would poop out the test results pronto!
Yeah, we had fun and we were naïve, yet everyone gotta start somewhere.
And it’s not that hard. Being outdated by 20 years also means that you lived in a world where things didn’t “just work” and simple troubleshooting is fine. High school physics is fine, and knowing V=IR and P=V2/R is plenty.
There are people who need color coded cables for the cables on their computer or AVR, and then there are those with basic knowledge. That’s all you really need.
The rest of the difficulty… anyone who understands the charts in Amir’s review is fine.
Ground loops and wiring and placement are important too, and that’s going to be trial and error and understanding the “electrical weather” in your home
computer-audiophile
Major Contributor
I would distinguish between the verification of the technical data of a consumer audio product from a reputable manufacturer and audio items that you build or modify yourself. Of course, it makes sense to be able to examine the results of changes you made e.g.
If you don't change anything but buy and use a good product off the shelf, what's the point of confirming the data? It would not make me any happier with the sound.
If you don't change anything but buy and use a good product off the shelf, what's the point of confirming the data? It would not make me any happier with the sound.
computer-audiophile
Major Contributor
Just to give you a little background:
It's similar for me, I was active in rallying when I was young. I adjusted the valves on my Mini-Cooper S motor myself and also adjusted the carburetors on my Alfa Romeo and Lancia Sportscars. I tinkered a lot with cars.
Before Labview came on the market, I programmed fancy graphical user interfaces myself for the computer-based measuring instruments of my own company. At that time, I used the programming language Visual Basic for that, among others.
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