Who has an AP and willing to do measurements for other ASR members, raise your hand

[CleanSound]

Hi All,

As this is ASR, we obviously love measurements and many member have sent in their audio gear to Amir to measure and review. But Amir is in the Pacific northwest, that is easy if we are sending in something small or if you live nearby and you can just drop off big items. But I have a 50lbs Yamaha A-S2200 that I want it to get measured, I don't feel comfortable shipping it cross country (cost prohibitive and potential shipping damage, I have many horror stories with shipping large, heavy and expensive items).

If anyone here has an AP or other precision measurement tools and are willing to have other ASR members drop off audio gears for you to measure and possibly post the results on ASR (and of course, if you feel comfortable doing it), can you raise your hand?

Maybe we can start a directory with members who are willing to measure for other ASR members? Username, country and region in that country (do not share your city openly for privacy concerns) and we can PM you to arrange the logistics.

Separately, for my own education, I would love for you to show me how to use these precision tools, so maybe one day I can get myself something like a Quant Asylum (don't have $30k for an AP) and be one of these people helping others do measurements.

 

[Salt]

Maybe including the atlantic east, ehem, Europe

 

[CleanSound]

Maybe including the atlantic east, ehem, Europe

Precisely, there are ASR members in APAC and EMEA as well. To have them ship their gear all the way to the US for Amir to measure is just very difficult and expensive, not to mention different voltage standards.

So it'd be nice to have different members in different geographic location who can and willing to do these measurements and submit it to ASR, increasing the database.

Just my thought, it may amount to nothing because other members with an AP (or other measurement tools) have to commit their time and effort on top of what they got in their daily lives.

 

[JSmith]

@SIY has an Audio Precision APx525 analyzer... maybe send a PM.


JSmith

 

[boXem]

@VintageFlanker , @Rja4000 , @thin bLue , @pma , @Rick Sykora and certainly others that I forgot are already measuring gear and publishing their measurements. Just scroll the reviews front page.

 

[GXAlan]

1) Get an E1DA Cosmos ADC, Scaler, APU. It's not free, but it's pretty cheap. The ADC is most important, followed by the scaler. APU is optional.
2) Get Multitone software from @pkane. It's free.
3) Get a 120 dB SINAD level DAC if you don't already have one.

You are now ready to test any line-level audio product* You'll have to go through your learning curve with component placement, grounding, and deal with the DC on the Cosmos ADC, but nothing works better for the money.
----
3) Get non-inductive 4 or 8 ohm resistors with 1% tolerance from a company like Vishay-Dale suitable for handling several hundred watts of power.
4) Get industrial-strength head-worn hearing protection and earplugs underneath your head-wrong hearing protection

You are now ready to test amplifiers through resistive loads and actual reactive speaker loads

 

[CleanSound]

1) Get an E1DA Cosmos ADC, Scaler, APU. It's not free, but it's pretty cheap. The ADC is most important, followed by the scaler. APU is optional.
2) Get Multitone software from @pkane. It's free.
3) Get a 120 dB SINAD level DAC if you don't already have one.

You are now ready to test any line-level audio product* You'll have to go through your learning curve with component placement, grounding, and deal with the DC on the Cosmos ADC, but nothing works better for the money.
----
3) Get non-inductive 4 or 8 ohm resistors with 1% tolerance from a company like Vishay-Dale suitable for handling several hundred watts of power.
4) Get industrial-strength head-worn hearing protection and earplugs underneath your head-wrong hearing protection

You are now ready to test amplifiers through resistive loads and actual reactive speaker loads

Is there a detail write up on ASR on how to set these tools up, configure them, use them and links to where to buy them?

 

[Rick Sykora]

Really get the shipping cost issue…

I have tested for Buckeye and a few others. Testing is also less fun when the component is heavy. I usually am testing in preparation for sale and can help with shipping the unit to a new owner to avoid added shipping and handling expense.

You can find scattered threads on ASR for DIY test rig. If power amp testing is desired, need to consider cooling for the dummy loads and ensuring your AC power is sufficient for the task. For Class D amps, may also need a test filter.

 

[ta240]

Really get the shipping cost issue…

That was my thought, shipping costs are rediculous anymore and that doesn't figure in for the possibility of damage, no matter how well it is packaged. UPS bent a trailer hitch one time and denied the claim based on insufficient packing.

 

[Rick Sykora]

Meant to mention, that a tech at a local repair shop may be your best bet. I have one locally that does diagnosis for $10. So unless I find something obvious, my stuff goes to the shop.

Also, very useful if you have a baseline to compare against. You can loopback to know what your rig's limits are, but when you start measuring, you will likely find things are not as you expect even though they sound ok.

 

[CleanSound]

Meant to mention, that a tech at a local repair shop may be your best bet. I have one locally that does diagnosis for $10. So unless I find something obvious, my stuff goes to the shop.

Also, very useful if you have a baseline to compare against. You can loopback to know what your rig's limits are, but when you start measuring, you will likely find things are not as you expect even though they sound ok.

Most local repair shops around where I am, have older audio analyzers, like AP portable one or a R&S. Surely are are sufficient for most older gear, I was told their performance is not sufficient to accurately measure some of the newer DACs.

I think the cost of an AP is just so prohibitive for so many, $30k, that's a car right there. I also realized that an AP is not intended for hobbyists, so can't really complain about it.

 

[GXAlan]

Is there a detail write up on ASR on how to set these tools up, configure them, use them and links to where to buy them?

Not really, but people are generally helpful.

If you’re not sure how to set it up, skip the amplifier testing goals for now. Amazon has the E1DA fulfilled by Chinese retailers and Audiophonics in France ships to the U.S. quickly.

The best place to start is to try to understand all of the various graphs that Amir uses in his reviews. He has YouTube videos explaining things. Then you can replicate many of the AP tests using Multitone software.

The best way to learn is experimenting

 

[CleanSound]

Not really, but people are generally helpful.

If you’re not sure how to set it up, skip the amplifier testing goals for now. Amazon has the E1DA fulfilled by Chinese retailers and Audiophonics in France ships to the U.S. quickly.

The best place to start is to try to understand all of the various graphs that Amir uses in his reviews. He has YouTube videos explaining things. Then you can replicate many of the AP tests using Multitone software.

The best way to learn is experimenting

So essentially, you install the software on your computer, connected to your DAC to generate the analogy signal which goes through to the DUT, and take that analog signal from the DUT to the ADC and back to the computer and let the software on your computer compare and analyze?

And for now, I can effectively just use my Topping D90SE and buy the ADC and do a "passthrough" which will let me analyze the performance level of my setup (yes, I will need the software)?

 

[SIY]

@SIY has an Audio Precision APx525 analyzer... maybe send a PM.


JSmith

I'm really bad about boxing and shipping things. So anyone who wants me to do a measurement is advised to take a road trip to beautiful rural NY state.

 

[GXAlan]

So essentially, you install the software on your computer, connected to your DAC to generate the analogy signal which goes through to the DUT, and take that analog signal from the DUT to the ADC and back to the computer and let the software on your computer compare and analyze?

And for now, I can effectively just use my Topping D90SE and buy the ADC and do a "passthrough" which will let me analyze the performance level of my setup (yes, I will need the software)?

Yes, if the DUT is an analog product.

If you are testing a DAC or AVR, the software can just output the test signal that goes straight to your ADC.

It is sort of magic.

Multitone tool is your $10,000 piece of software that @pkane has gifted to the community.

 

[CleanSound]

Yes, if the DUT is an analog product.

If you are testing a DAC or AVR, the software can just output the test signal that goes straight to your ADC.

That assumes the ADC has a greater performance than the DAC?

Do you know the performance of this setup compared to the QuantAsylum QA403?

It is sort of magic.

Multitone tool is your $10,000 piece of software that @pkane has gifted to the community.

A $10k software gift? Wow that is very generous!

 

[GXAlan]

That assumes the ADC has a greater performance than the DAC?

The E1DA Cosmos Grade A is in that category, minus the DC offset which doesn't matter with most of the tests being conducted.

Do you know the performance of this setup compared to the QuantAsylum QA403?

Less automation, less straightforward -- but the E1DA has lower noise. The biggest issue of the E1DA is the input impedance which the scaler should fix.

A $10k software gift? Wow that is very generous!

I'm also factoring personalized tech support fees

Basically, @pkane has made a compelling competitor to the APX500 Flex software which gets pretty pricey.

E1DA Cosmos ADC

well, I'm not sure regarding Audiophonics but Sunny has it as APU cables(3.5mm to XLR male or 3.5mm to XLR female, also you can get "ADC probe" cables aka XLR male to 2 hooks In+/In- and one crocodile-clamp to GND).

audiosciencereview.com

Except multitone is free...

 

[CleanSound]

The E1DA Cosmos Grade A is in that category, minus the DC offset which doesn't matter with most of the tests being conducted.

Is this what you are referring to?

Is this Grade A/B/C a setting, a threshold, different models of this ADC? What does that mean? Sorry I'm not an analogy guy.

 

[CleanSound]

Basically, @pkane has made a compelling competitor to the APX500 Flex software which gets pretty pricey.

E1DA Cosmos ADC

well, I'm not sure regarding Audiophonics but Sunny has it as APU cables(3.5mm to XLR male or 3.5mm to XLR female, also you can get "ADC probe" cables aka XLR male to 2 hooks In+/In- and one crocodile-clamp to GND).

audiosciencereview.com

Except multitone is free...

Got it, so pkane created a software called Multitone, which he has gifted to members of ASR. This multitone software essentially does what the APX500 Flex software does, which costs close to $10k.

Well, hats off for @pkane !

 

[BDWoody]

Got it, so pkane created a software called Multitone, which he has gifted to members of ASR. This multitone software essentially does what the APX500 Flex software does, which costs close to $10k.

Well, hats off for @pkane !

We are incredibly fortunate to have him here, and that software to freely use.

I have the QA401, along with a few other boxes of theirs, and it has been an amazing learning experience. It is very easy to use, has lots of very helpful automated test routines, and a helpful community.

The guys who know what they are doing with analyzers make it look easy to figure out what means what. Let's say it was very humbling to see how I really had no clue about anything.