Western Electric WE16GA versus Ordinary Cable (Any cable for that matter)

[Tranquility Bass]

That’s fine and they are entitled too of course. No disagreements from me about unsafe or bad workmanship or goods that failed to be supplied after payment. That’s not the issue from what I can see. The real issue is what is the role of the owner and moderators of that forum were in promoting someone who obviously didn’t have the requisite skill set to manage such a task in the first place when there were other more suitably qualified local suppliers with a proven track record that could and were sidelined for some unknown reason – usually because of sponsorship money. Sound familiar ? What sort of so called ‘community’ forum is that ?

A few years ago the said cable supplier could do no wrong and now it has turned into a witch hunt with owners of the said cables coming out of the woodwork and even finding fault with working cables, whilst the owner of that forum acts like someone who has caused a car accident, gets out of the car when no one is looking and mingles with the spectators and onlookers pretending not to have anything to do with it. I’d like to know what role they had in all of this. Wouldn’t you ? Perhaps the judge might too

It’s a fine line between criticizing someone’s poor workmanship whilst at the same time defaming a business owner particularly in a one-man operation. At least that’s what I understand about the defamation laws in Australia. The other issue is why is he publicizing this in an open forum like some sort of kangaroo court whilst hiding his electric car thread from public view ? Go figure.

 

[dorakeg]

Some Amps may have issues with cables that have high capacitance. However, only fancy cables have high capacitance. Normal 2 wire cables all have pretty low capacitance.

 

[BDWoody]

As an aside, despite the certainties expressed by some above, there are people who have much better "ears" than I, who can provably and repeatably tell the differences between cables, in double blind tests etc.

Assuming we aren't talking about cables that are obviously not competent for the job or designed to influence the sound (which can be determined through simple measurements) vs. simply transmit the signal without trying to 'improve' it, can you provide some evidence to back these claims?

I'm sure you wouldn't just take their word for it, would you?

 

[fpitas]

Since this is a science-based forum, here's some science:

Loudspeaker Cable Characteristic Impedance

What is the effect of the characteristic impedance of a loudspeaker cable? Is it important to match the cable to the speaker load impedance, or is this simply a marketing ploy?

sound-au.com

The conclusion? Use zip cord of sufficient gauge and RF terminate it if you want the very best performance. The parts to do that cost about $1, and they're not glamorous in any way.

 

[noiseangel]

Quite a few of the posts above contain judgements about people on another audio forum, using expressions such as "this bonehead", "what a dumbass", "let's have a witch hunt and defame and vilify the dude at the same time".
Also ""most of the claims are vexatious and frivolous and won't stand up in a court of law", "from what I can see, the cables can be made right by someone with good soldering skills and that is all that is required", "the problem is that they have to prove what they bought is inferior to what they expected" etc.

It may help people on this forum to better understand the key issues which are actually at stake, with a few statements of fact:

1. A number of people have lodged claims with the Queensland Civil and Administrative Tribunal (QCAT) because late in 2021/early 2022 they paid money to a Queensland resident for cables (of various types). They never received their cables. Their multiple/repeated requests for refunds of money have not been answered with a return of their money.
More than 6 months later, and still waiting for their refunds, they have applied to QCAT for orders to be made for their money to be refunded.
Reasonable or unreasonable?
2. Others made orders (and paid money) to the same person for cables which were to be made from "vintage Western Electric cable from the 1950s, and they paid prices which reflected the rarity of such cables (when genuine WE, not counterfeit).
None of the people taking action received WE cable (of any type or vintage, and certainly NOT vintage Western Electric cable from the 1950s).They received cables made of something altogether different (sometimes not even audio cable of any type or make). This is defined as a "major problem" under Australian Consumer Law, and so they are entitled to seek (and receive) a full refund of their money, upon return of the counterfeit goods. They are seeking such refunds.
Reasonable or unreasonable?
3. Others made orders (and paid money) to the same person for the supply of audio power cords, which were advertised with a written guarantee that such would be "tested and tagged" etc.
Upon the failure of one of the provided cords (burning out of the cord, tripping of household safety switches, fuses in multiple equipment being blown etc), it was discovered (via investigation) that the manufacturer/supplier is not the holder of an Electrical Licence (as is required to manufacture such cables for sale in Australia), the cables were never tested/certified/properly marked as is required in Australia/New Zealand and that therefore multiple breaches of the relevant Electrical Safety Act, Regulation, Australian/New Zealand Standards, and EESS requirements have occurred.
Several purchasers of such power cords are applying to have their money refunded.
Reasonable or unreasonable?

Everything in the above 3 points comprises provable statements of fact, not opinion.
I won't be going into further detail, or engaging in debate about the matter on this forum, today or at any other time, before the matter is determined in the appropriate place and time.

This is an international forum. I do not know what consumer protection laws apply outside of Australia for matters such as the above, but within Australia, the consumer protection laws about the matters summarised above are detailed by the ACCC for those who are interested.

The matters about which a number of people are taking action have nothing to do with whether people can tell the difference between one type of cable or another. As an aside, despite the certainties expressed by some above, there are people who have much better "ears" than I, who can provably and repeatably tell the differences between cables, in double blind tests etc. They may be a small minority of audiophiles, but they exist, and I have witnessed a couple of them "do it".
Whether such differences warrant the prices charged for some cables is also not the point of the action which is being taken by some people who were scammed by another person.
Hopefully after reading the above, there need be nobody left in doubt on this forum about the reasons why these matters are being pursued, or the consumer legal matters which will come into play when the matters are determined.

When they opened up the cables to inspect the soldering all the goodness left the cable.Just buy some "Soundstage In A Can", re-solder and refill the cables and seal them back up.Whats the problem Parrasaw?

 

[fpitas]

To me those speaker cables look no different than wiring you’d find in an electric oven, toaster or from an old 1930’s radio

I still remember rocking out to my old toaster oven.

 

[noiseangel]

I still remember rocking out to my old toaster oven.

Did you ever listen to Bread on it?

 

[fpitas]

Did you ever listen to Bread on it?

Only when I was toasted!

 

[ahofer]

there are people who have much better "ears" than I, who can provably and repeatably tell the differences between cables, in double blind tests etc. They may be a small minority of audiophiles, but they exist, and I have witnessed a couple of them "do it".

Would like to see more verifiable data on that claim.

 

[Mnyb]

The original question is wrongly stated the "power" is not the question so "at 100w" is not the right thing to ask.

And yes this forum as to many cable treads , their probably half of the content of the forum by now for such an uninteresting part of your hifi .

 

[noiseangel]

I just found the reviews on these cables on the wayback machine.Seems everything was alright way back then.Glowing reviews.3724 positive posts.

• Commercial Member
• +3,724
• 4,803 posts
• Location: Redland Bay
• Country: Australia
• First Name:Bill

Reviews on Western Electric Cables

Just thought I’d start a spot here if anyone wants to leave a review

web.archive.org

 

[fpitas]

That must have been like owning a gold mine. I wonder why he quit making them?

 

[noiseangel]

I know I'm onto something here as this review said when they got the cables there was "Soundstage" present in the cable.I'm postive the "Soundstage In A Can" will fix the problem.

I have had a pr of Bill's WE balanced interconnects between DAC & integrated amp for probably 40hrs or so now. When they first went in they sounded fabulous stone cold. Nice open, airy presentation. Nice bass weight. They have improved since. They offer a huge soundstage coming forward into the room. Bass is not necessarily deeper but just has more impact. The treble sparkles without sibilence & the mids are warm & real. The music just sounds 'right' & natural. These wires have replaced a pr of far pricier Antipodes Audio interconnects, (which I still love & will never part with). I have also asked Bill to construct a pr of unbalanced & also a S/PDIF cable out of this fabled wire for me. The RCA cables will go between phono pre & amp replacing an excellent set of cables made by a highly regarded Queensland speaker maker. Onya Bill, I'm hooked.
Edited March 15 by mikey d

 

[noiseangel]

That must have been like owning a gold mine. I wonder why he quit making them?

Much like SR I guess.And every other cable maker.

 

[fpitas]

I know I'm onto something here as this review said when they got the cables there was "Soundstage" present in the cable.I'm postive the "Soundstage In A Can" will fix the problem.

I have had a pr of Bill's WE balanced interconnects between DAC & integrated amp for probably 40hrs or so now. When they first went in they sounded fabulous stone cold. Nice open, airy presentation. Nice bass weight. They have improved since. They offer a huge soundstage coming forward into the room. Bass is not necessarily deeper but just has more impact. The treble sparkles without sibilence & the mids are warm & real. The music just sounds 'right' & natural. These wires have replaced a pr of far pricier Antipodes Audio interconnects, (which I still love & will never part with). I have also asked Bill to construct a pr of unbalanced & also a S/PDIF cable out of this fabled wire for me. The RCA cables will go between phono pre & amp replacing an excellent set of cables made by a highly regarded Queensland speaker maker. Onya Bill, I'm hooked.
Edited March 15 by mikey d

Maybe Bill's source of soundstage ran dry, so production came to a halt.

 

[fpitas]

Much like SR I guess.And every other cable maker.

Perhaps you only move so many before the trendiness is exhausted.

 

[noiseangel]

Maybe Bill's source of soundstage ran dry, so production came to a halt.

I don't know how,all the other cable manufacturers seem to have 20 litre drums of the stuff laying around everywhere.

 

[OzarkCDN]

Only when I was toasted!

Wasn't Bread always toasted?

 

[OzarkCDN]

The conclusion? Use zip cord of sufficient gauge and RF terminate it if you want the very best performance. The parts to do that cost about $1, and they're not glamorous in any way.

Pardon please - what is RF terminaton for zip cord?

 

[fpitas]

Pardon please - what is RF terminaton for zip cord?

It's just a resistor in series with a small capacitor to properly absorb RF energy at the speaker end of the cable. Rod does a good job of explaining it in the linked article.