• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). There are daily reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Ultra high end speaker manufacturers that rely heavily on measurements?

gnarly

Active Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2021
Messages
248
Likes
239
Martin Audio is one the biggest names on the PA world. They live with measurements!
Yes indeed. And talk about a scientific, measurement based R&D approach.
Martin's MLA system is a killer piece of high tech.

I know home audio is inclined to think, "what the heck do large scale touring line arrays like Martin's MLA have to do with hi-fi?" ....

I've watched home and pro for a few decades now, and often the new tech that emerges in pro......
such as low freq cardioid patterning, high freq beam steering, use of FIR filters, greater efforts on time and phase alignment, etc....
starts showing up in home audio after a while, only obviously scaled down. But science being the same...
 

bkdc

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 28, 2022
Messages
116
Likes
105
With today’s technology, exotic materials and unusual designs don’t yield better sound. Best to spend all that effort on room treatments and speaker placement in a room. At a certain threshold, it’s a matter of taste/preference.

A R&D scientific approach to very expensive sound? The TAD (formerly Pioneer) Reference One or Reference One Compact. The Evolution One probably sounds just as good but doesn’t look as upscale. TAD takes sound seriously. High quality finish but nothing that looks like it came out of a modern art museum.
 

fineMen

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2021
Messages
453
Likes
149
And Focal uses a Klippel Analyser for driver development, so I can't imagine they just throw some drivers togheter to build a speaker.

Klippel blessed us with two different systems. First one is for raw driver measurement, the other used here for the measurement of the spinorama of a completed speaker.

Again, from the original question it is not at all clear what measurements are meant, neither is declared, how the measurements are interpreted.

In the unlikely case You care about "science" You for sure acknowledge that a measurement alone doesn't tell anything. It is the "model", the "theory" that makes a coherent understanding what it means. In its generality, combined with the meaningless buzz-word "high end", emphasised in all its glorious emptiness by "ultra" the question doesn't make any sense.

Translating science to engineering the science--referring to an operational model, a theory, then may state a target. The measurement would confirm "mission accomplished".

Reiterated, there is a very complicated story with KEF, England. At all times they were alone (!) reliant on measurements. No deliberate b/s (other than JBL in its history). But the operational model for the speaker as an expedient technical device has changed considerably. E/g, back in the day only the direct sound was considered. Directivity was of some concern, but only in respect to listening off axis. It resulted in the KEF Calinda, an 8" woffer/midrange plus a 3/4" tweeter crossed over at 3,5kHz. Compare to what they do today. Same utter reliance on measurements, different theory.

The original question spares out any thought about the relevant context. Buzz-wording no. It scrutinises the possibility of having two words in one sentence, namely "high end" and "measurement". I dunno who might be fancied so much by the canonical vocabulary from those blistering magazines. As explicated above, both terms are empty. The former always, the latter if not understood.

And then You debate, if a pro p/a manufacturer is in real engineering.
 
Last edited:

jhaider

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Messages
1,911
Likes
2,739
With today’s technology, exotic materials and unusual designs don’t yield better sound. Best to spend all that effort on room treatments and speaker placement in a room. At a certain threshold, it’s a matter of taste/preference.

A R&D scientific approach to very expensive sound? The TAD (formerly Pioneer) Reference One or Reference One Compact. The Evolution One probably sounds just as good but doesn’t look as upscale. TAD takes sound seriously. High quality finish but nothing that looks like it came out of a modern art museum.
TAD Evolution One itself is a basically the new version of an earlier, relatively much cheaper speaker - Pioneer S-1EX. The cabinets are fairly different (I assume Evo One has more expensive veneer - I've only heard the earlier Pioneer; interestingly the earlier one is a good bit heavier) but the measurements show the lineage.

@Kal Rubinson's reviews:
Pioneer S-1EX ($9000 in 2007): https://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/307piosex/index.html
TAD Evolution One ($30k in 2013, do not know current price): https://www.stereophile.com/content/tad-evolution-one-loudspeaker

IMO it's unfortunate the Pioneer EX line never caught on. They were very good speakers and IMO well priced and finished for their performance. They also had IMO the first really good in-wall and in-ceiling speakers, though they were also priced at the bleeding edge of that market when introduced, and introduced with the worst timing possible (right into the Dubya Bush global economic crash).
 

Ilkless

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 26, 2019
Messages
1,291
Likes
2,499
Location
Singapore
TAD Evolution One itself is a basically the new version of an earlier, relatively much cheaper speaker - Pioneer S-1EX. The cabinets are fairly different (I assume Evo One has more expensive veneer - I've only heard the earlier Pioneer; interestingly the earlier one is a good bit heavier) but the measurements show the lineage.

@Kal Rubinson's reviews:
Pioneer S-1EX ($9000 in 2007): https://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/307piosex/index.html
TAD Evolution One ($30k in 2013, do not know current price): https://www.stereophile.com/content/tad-evolution-one-loudspeaker

IMO it's unfortunate the Pioneer EX line never caught on. They were very good speakers and IMO well priced and finished for their performance. They also had IMO the first really good in-wall and in-ceiling speakers, though they were also priced at the bleeding edge of that market when introduced, and introduced with the worst timing possible (right into the Dubya Bush global economic crash).


On a related note,I was extremely surprised to find out the new Evolution Two floorstander uses a beryllium tweeter in a waveguide, rather than a coax. Strikes me as a move to segment the product line so that the coaxs are reserved for the Reference series. Really love the design of the Reference series - its like the old KEF 20x reference series crossed with Sonus Faber.

The few boutique high-end brands I'd buy budget permitting are Magico, Vivid or TAD incidentally. I've always said the Magico A5 is a stonking value compared to the 328Be, when it was still 5k more than the Revel for US production, trick drivers, the insane braced aluminium enclosure, wonderful finishing and haptics, and excellent measurements except for a muted top octave.
 

Kal Rubinson

Major Contributor
Industry Insider
Joined
Mar 23, 2016
Messages
4,080
Likes
6,618
Location
NYC/CT

On a related note,I was extremely surprised to find out the new Evolution Two floorstander uses a beryllium tweeter in a waveguide, rather than a coax. Strikes me as a move to segment the product line so that the coaxs are reserved for the Reference series.
Yes and, also, the cabinet is a disappointment.
 

Ilkless

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 26, 2019
Messages
1,291
Likes
2,499
Location
Singapore
Yes and, also, the cabinet is a disappointment.

Not very competitive compared to Vivid Kaya or Magico A-series - all the boutique credentials, amazing cabinets, as good if not better engineering, much more displacement.

And as for 20+k speakers in the slimline floorstander format - you have the likes of Raidho who have much better cabinets too. Headscratching.

And to compare flagships from Japanese consumer electronics giants - seems to lag behind the SS-AR1 or NS-5000.
 

Hammer

Member
Joined
May 17, 2020
Messages
5
Likes
2
Has anyone done any independent measurements of YG speakers? I know they are touted as measuring very flat and when I looked into purchasing a Devialet system, the correction profile for their Sonja 1.3 was very flat meaning not much, if any, correction was needed. Would one consider that as an independent measurement. I imagine they would be too heavy to ship for measurements…
 
Top Bottom