Some Dishonest Chinese Manufacturers Are Counterfeiting High-End Headphones. A Story About Fake Headphones.

[Roland68]

We don't care about their costs, we care about ours.

Now that's a far-sighted statement.
The manufacturer sees it exactly the same way, and that's why they don't care about your costs.

If the manufacturer's costs aren't covered, there will either be no new products, no manufacturer, or both.

The next time you get annoyed that products are defective, don't have a reasonable warranty, aren't fully developed, don't work properly, etc., you'll know where the problem lies.

 

[Sebby]

To buy and justify counterfeit products, you have to smell like a failure that's recognizable from a mile away.
Please, don't have children, for our sake and that of your own children

 

[Adis]

Now that's a far-sighted statement.
The manufacturer sees it exactly the same way, and that's why they don't care about your costs.

If the manufacturer's costs aren't covered, there will either be no new products, no manufacturer, or both.

The next time you get annoyed that products are defective, don't have a reasonable warranty, aren't fully developed, don't work properly, etc., you'll know where the problem lies.

Demagoguery much?

 

[Roland68]

Demagoguery much?

No, just a very basic understanding of how business works and what costs manufacturers generate and have to cover for their products.

Such product counterfeiters exist primarily for two reasons. They save 80-90% of the original manufacturer's costs and are supported by buyers who even approve of such a thing.

If buyers don't understand that a manufacturer has to cover all costs incurred by selling its products, including development, employees, rent, taxes, and everything else, in order to survive, and that only with the money earned can they develop new products, then our education system has completely failed these buyers.

If enough buyers buy counterfeit products and the manufacturers who originally developed these products don't survive as a result, then the problem will solve itself.
No newly developed products, no more counterfeits.
I guess that's what you call a win-win situation, right?

 

[Adis]

No, just a very basic understanding of how business works and what costs manufacturers generate and have to cover for their products.

Such product counterfeiters exist primarily for two reasons. They save 80-90% of the original manufacturer's costs and are supported by buyers who even approve of such a thing.

If buyers don't understand that a manufacturer has to cover all costs incurred by selling its products, including development, employees, rent, taxes, and everything else, in order to survive, and that only with the money earned can they develop new products, then our education system has completely failed these buyers.

If enough buyers buy counterfeit products and the manufacturers who originally developed these products don't survive as a result, then the problem will solve itself.
No newly developed products, no more counterfeits.
I guess that's what you call a win-win situation, right?

Buyers don't care about how something works, designers do. Businessmen do, engineers do. Buyers don't. Buyers only buy stuff they can't get for free.

 

[dlaloum]

Half the problem is the long term leveraging of IP laws and associated lawfare, by larger corporations. This allows them to maintain high margins.

Many headphone designs are long past patentable periods, and much of what we now see are minor variations on designs and principles that were already well established in the 1980's.

Beyer, AKG, Koss, and others were already producing headphones well nigh identical to what we have today 40 years ago.

It certainly is unethical to use someone elses branding on ones own product.... this is a question of trademarks.

But with regards to headphones as a genre, and designs that with detail variations, have not changed in decades....

It becomes akin to saying you cannot build a deck using that woodworking method cos' John Smith invented that in 1000BC and it is his design

Reality is, this kind of market distorting nonsense is what has led to China's dominance of manufacturing and consumer goods...

The west (and the USA in particular) likes to tout its "free market" ideology, but really hates it, when that free market no longer works in its favor - then it's all about IP, copyright, trademarks, lawfare, tariffs and controls.

The better asian manufacturers, make no bones about the design, but apply their own branding.

Where there is original IP involved, new technology, new applications, then yes, I have no problem with controlling things - but 99% of it does not fall in that domain.

 

[Adis]

What's a free market? A market that has no owner?
Abomination, what kind a capitalism is that...

 

[Roland68]

What's a free market? A market that has no owner?
Abomination, what kind a capitalism is that...

Exactly, and now Chinese manufacturers are also trying to protect their intellectual "property" by any means necessary, even at the expense of their buyers.

A good example of this is Topping's PA5 amplifier (and a few other devices), where Topping attempted to protect the circuitry with a potting compound, which led to the failure of many of these devices. This caused significant damage to the company's reputation, replacement costs to this day, and the "secret circuit" was only made public as a result.

 

[Adis]

Exactly, and now Chinese manufacturers are also trying to protect their intellectual "property" by any means necessary, even at the expense of their buyers.

A good example of this is Topping's PA5 amplifier (and a few other devices), where Topping attempted to protect the circuitry with a potting compound, which led to the failure of many of these devices. This caused significant damage to the company's reputation, replacement costs to this day, and the "secret circuit" was only made public as a result.

If I were them, I would engrave "Do not open or else!" on the case.

 

[Kremmen]

We don't care about their costs, we care about ours.

I care about their costs and my own. That would seem the fairest way to view the situation. Most people have to make a living.

 

[Adis]

I care about their costs and my own. That would seem the fairest way to view the situation. Most people have to make a living.

Are you partners with them? There's no "your costs", "my costs", only "our costs"?
Sounds socialist to me.

 

[dlaloum]

Are you partners with them? There's no "your costs", "my costs", only "our costs"?
Sounds socialist to me.

Which would not be a bad thing at all (sounding socialist)

 

[Adis]

Which would not be a bad thing at all (sounding socialist)

Now I'm totally confused - didn't we say that socialism is the greatest evil that has ever befallen the universe? Aren't we all here on a mission to bring prosperity, human rights, democracy, and blissful capitalism to all of humanity?

 

[raif71]

Counterfeits of certain mid-to-low-end HiFi headphones, such as Sennheiser IE800S, AKG K702, Shure SRH1840, and Beyer T1 3rd, have been widespread for a long time. It has reached the point where even I wouldn't dare to purchase these headphones on online second-hand market. Recently counterfeiters have shifted their focus from low-end to high-end headphones. They are no longer just copying appearances but are replicating the entire headphone design, including drivers and cavity to pass off as genuine.

a fake 1266
Abyss was one of the first brands targeted, likely because the 1266 has significant distortion, uses a single-piece magnet in driver, and features a relatively low structural complexity, making it easier and cheaper to replicate.

magnet from a fake 1266 (same as real one's)
You can see that some counterfeits label themselves as X1226 (6500 rmb) to distinguish from genuine products, while others shamelessly steal Abyss trademark outright. Most exported 1266 units sold without packaging are counterfeits. These are often marketed as "factory stock", claiming to be unofficial products privately leaked by OEM factory of Abyss and thus not officially certified. In reality, they are all fake.

x1226
XK Audio is one of the most well-known counterfeit headphone workshops. He released its flagship called Serene (6999 rmb) months ago. The driver design of Serene is very similar to the Susvara, although the appearance and build of the product are completely different. This is because Hifiman takes intellectual property protection very seriously, leaving no manufacturers daring to counterfeit or even mimic its designs. However, if you examine the driver's appearance and sound, you can still notice some similarities.

Serene, this is not a fake
XK Audio has also plagiarized other headphone brands. He claimed that some of the drivers comes from the same supplier as the original products. Sadly he appears to be honest, but in order to avoid being perceived as promoting fakes, I will not mention which Hi-End headphone manufacturers bought driver designs from which suppliers.

XK Audio products
After releasing the Serene, XK Audio began developing a subflagship planar headphone called Liu Yun (流韵), which plagiarized the T+A Solitaire P. However, about a month ago, he announced that Liu Yun "did not meet their standards" and needs a redesign.

the Original Liu Yun, a fake Solitaire P
The actual reason is more complex. Hifiman Susvara Unveiled was released in June when the development of Liu Yun is almost completed. XK Audio thinks the driver and cavity design of Susvara Unveiled is more advanced than Solitaire P, more suitable as their subflagship, so he decided to plagiarize the former instead. The just-completed original design of Liu Yun was later found to be sold to another counterfeiting workshop, JoiAccoustics (悦之音), which was priced at 4699 rmb and named SS-Phantom P.

SS-Phantom P
Brands counterfeited by JoiAcoustics include not only T+A but also some models of Grado, ZMF, Denon and Abyss. They've even replicated Diana series too. I don't understand what kind of idiots will buy those.

JoiAcoustics products
Not only counterfeiting workshops but also some honest Hi-Fi brands share the same OEM suppliers and production lines with premium major headphone brands. It's not difficult for a group of people with degrees in material science, physics and acoustics to copy a headphone. In modern headphone industry relying on supply chain, there's no longer an all-round headphone expert.

So do not trust your eyes or ears too much and think you can distinguish fakes once upon you see and hear them. Trust anti-counterfeiting measures instead.

Domestic audiophiles are rarely fooled by these high-end counterfeit headphones. As a result, these counterfeits are priced far lower than genuine products, with most buyers knowingly purchasing fakes. However, I am aware that some individuals purchase these cheap fakes domestically and resell them abroad at high prices. Therefore, please exercise extreme caution when purchasing second-hand headphones without packaging!

Whatever how good is the sound or price, selling fakes are shameless and unacceptable.

Abyssmal if you ask me

 

[dlaloum]

Abyssmal if you ask me

The abyssmal thing is "passing off as genuine" - a "copy" worth its salt, will often outperform the original... and definitely should carry its own branding.... even if it merely matches (or underperforms) the original - the real issue is branding.

 

[Roland68]

Now I'm totally confused - didn't we say that socialism is the greatest evil that has ever befallen the universe? Aren't we all here on a mission to bring prosperity, human rights, democracy, and blissful capitalism to all of humanity?

Maybe you're just confused because you're in the wrong forum.
This thread is about counterfeit high-quality headphones.
Political topics are generally discouraged in this forum: "Further, we don't allow discussion of religion or politics."

 

[Sokel]

There are sad stories all over about these stuff.
And has nothing to do with sound or audio.

Situation would be exactly the same even if they had no sound at all, if they were only good for pictures.

Think of a poor,third-world child wearing a fake Prada t-shirt. These stuff play with people's souls and desires.

 

[raif71]

The abyssmal thing is "passing off as genuine" - a "copy" worth its salt, will often outperform the original... and definitely should carry its own branding.... even if it merely matches (or underperforms) the original - the real issue is branding.

Yup that's what I meant. The whole idea of copying and using the brand was abyssmal.

 

[Adis]

Maybe you're just confused because you're in the wrong forum.
This thread is about counterfeit high-quality headphones.
Political topics are generally discouraged in this forum: "Further, we don't allow discussion of religion or politics."

And counterfeiting has nothing to do with politics?
Tell that to the OP. Tell him counterfeiting doesn't belong in science forum, bad for image.

 

[Mnyb]

Copy or counterfeit is not the same thing.

Copying expired previously patented or previously protected stuff is normal . Example Ortofon once held a patent fro the moving cool pickup ( in some form ) .

Counterfeit is stealing someone elses ”thunder ” , making your product appear as something its not and give it an immaterial brand apeal stolen from someone else .

If something is named Seinheiser i have expectations and may put an immaterial possibly a Veblen gods value on the product and are prepared to pay more . That’s what rhe counterfeiters are stealing.