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Ultra high end speaker manufacturers that rely heavily on measurements?

mwmkravchenko

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pablolie

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What ultra high end manufacturers out there rely heavily on measurements and produce products that measure really well?

Vivid, YG Acoustics, Grimm, B&O, Focal and Magico are some that come to mind for me. Maybe Rockport?
Paradigm and PSB supposedly do so in some unique room somewhere in Canada, forgot the details.

The interesting thing is that -in the list above- I know for sure that B&W does go for a signature coloration in the sound they want to deliver, as I am sure do many others (don't want to single out B&W).

As of late, KEF provides a lot of measurements in white papers for new offerings, which indicates they also have focus on measurements.

But I doubt that there's a single company for consumer audio -no matter how high end and measurements driven- that does not also go for exhaustive listening tests. Even Bruno P says they listen to their own stuff extensively.
 

sarumbear

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Seas, SB, Scanspeak, Morel, maybe Dynaudio, Tymphany and Focal. I just covered 90% + of all the brands that are mentioned in this thread.

The others are rarely used.
So you add “only if they are mentioned on this thread” to argue your point? At 5 pages it’s not even a long thread by ASR standards.
 

Kal Rubinson

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Paradigm and PSB supposedly do so in some unique room somewhere in Canada, forgot the details.
Paradigm has its own anechoic chamber but I believe that PSB still uses the Canadian National Research Council (NRC) facilities.
 

Descartes

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Chasing ultra high end speakers, electronics can be a very expensive addiction and detrimental to one’s well being especially financially and mentally!
 

mwmkravchenko

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Paradigm and PSB supposedly do so in some unique room somewhere in Canada, forgot the details.

The interesting thing is that -in the list above- I know for sure that B&W does go for a signature coloration in the sound they want to deliver, as I am sure do many others (don't want to single out B&W).

As of late, KEF provides a lot of measurements in white papers for new offerings, which indicates they also have focus on measurements.

But I doubt that there's a single company for consumer audio -no matter how high end and measurements driven- that does not also go for exhaustive listening tests. Even Bruno P says they listen to their own stuff extensively.
Paradigm makes their drivers from parts made in China. Many of their driver designs are from other engineers that I have known. PSB is similar. Paradigm uses Zengben for their steel parts and a few other vendors for their soft parts last I checked.
 

mwmkravchenko

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So you add “only if they are mentioned on this thread” to argue your point? At 5 pages it’s not even a long thread by ASR standards.
I opened the door for you to quantify your idea of ultra high end. Door is still there.
 

mwmkravchenko

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Paradigm has its own anechoic chamber but I believe that PSB still uses the Canadian National Research Council (NRC) facilities.
Don't know about PSB. There's the one at Paradigm, NRC has two. And I recently learned of a large private one in Arnprior Ontario not to far from me. Actually I am in the middle of both of them. NRC and Arnprior. I measure either groundplane for anechoic equivalent up to about 13khz or elevated outside for anechoic, or inside measurements in the winter. And I have done comparative measurements to demonstrate the differences.

But we are at a point in measurement that you can do groundplane measurements and gated measurements. And now we have access to mathematical functions in the measurement software that will allow multiple microphone placements and then averaging the measurements to remove the room reflections.

So an anechoic chamber is not really needed anymore.

Nor is the Klippel measurement system the be all and end all. These things are tools. Tools do not create. It's the people using them that create. Rant over. :)
 

mwmkravchenko

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Does anyone have the Dynaudio drivers site URL?
They don't sell to DIY any longer. They have been OEM only for more than 20 years. Actually nearer to 30 years. So that is one company that I should have said is OEM only.

But, they don't make drivers that are really all that impressive. They are good. But not SOTA.
 

sarumbear

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They don't sell to DIY any longer. They have been OEM only for more than 20 years. Actually nearer to 30 years. So that is one company that I should have said is OEM only.

But, they don't make drivers that are really all that impressive. They are good. But not SOTA.
I was asking for their OEM website.
 

notsodeadlizard

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There is such a terrible secret: it is impossible to create a loudspeaker as a product without design and measurements.
 

notsodeadlizard

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It's about B&O for example (very small part of picture of course):
 

mwmkravchenko

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There is such a terrible secret: it is impossible to create a loudspeaker as a product without design and measurements.
I think that you would be surprised by the number of designs that done with little more than basic measurements. This is the small company that is basically a one man show. The large companies yes. They have the R&D guys to justify their position and salaries. They need to measure and make technical arguements for what they do.

I have walked away from more than a few guys that "tune" their speakers by "ear" including crossover design so that their favorite recording has it's particular sound.

Or their definition of "bass" is mostly centered on harmonics that are due to high levels of distortion.

Tweeters that sizzle. I played French horn in front of drums and cymbals for years. They don't sizzle. But people expect tweeters to sizzle depending on who you talk to.

Again, that is high frequency harmonics related to dome breakups. This is easy to measure if you use the correct methods of measurement. And if you get accustomed to how these distortions sound, you can identify them quickly.
 

Kal Rubinson

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It's about B&O for example (very small part of picture of course):
Been there. Very impressive facility.
 

mwmkravchenko

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I'll go back to best.

As in best loudspeaker that can be engineered.

That would be active. ( Oh the horrors! You mean a designer might be able to choose the best amplifier? I can't use my magic cables???? )

That would use the best drivers as possible. Enough to get this goal accomplished: Tailored for each frequency range and desired SPL level and distortion level at that maximum SPL level.

An enclosure that is truly inert.
An enclosure that does not have parallel walls period.
An enclosure that if you have a port is situated in a place that does not impact on the frequency response of the loudspeakers midrange.
An enclosure that absorbs the interior wave of the cones that are playing into it. Yes loudspeakers play on both sides of the diaphragms.
Magic foam or fluffy polyester do not accomplish this. Plenty of studies that have demonstrated this from the 1970's forward.
Woefully neglected by the majority of loudspeaker engineers.

Correct enclosure design for minimal edge reflections. Time to put on your thinking cap!

Correct driver position on the horizontal and vertical planes. Best looking is not always best for listening.
Married to this is correct choice of crossover types and slopes to allow the best performance of your drivers.
Much of the secret sauce in a good loudspeaker is here.

DSP. It's not magic. Cannot raise a dead speaker to life. Or fix up an execrable one. But with the aforementioned it can make the diamond shine brightly.

I'll add high efficiency. Having made many, many speakers I can tell you that watts never make up for decibels. If you start with a high efficiency system there is a demonstrable presence and realism that you never get with high power and low efficiency.

Mark
 
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pseudoid

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That would be active. ( Oh the horrors! You mean a designer might be able to choose the best amplifier? I can't use my magic cables???? )
Why add the additional engineering tasks of "active" to a speaker... especially knowing that it would alienate those who like magic in their cables?
[Even with the argument that the 'passive' parts of a cross-over network can be achieved via the built-in "active" part.]
 
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