Truthear x Crinacle Zero:RED IEM Review

[GaryH]

It is rude to ask an audiophile their age.

Well it is pertinent here (of course they don't have to say if they don't want to though). Harman found preferred bass level decreases with age (likely due to less upward masking beneficial for presbycusis, poorer hearing at higher frequencies with age):

This poorer hearing results in higher variability (lower reliability) of sound quality judgements with age:

Similarly, noise-induced hearing loss also leads to lower sound quality judgements, an occupational hazard for e.g. sound engineers, of which it looks like the audiophile in question is (or was) one. Dr Floyd Toole again:

Hearing loss is an occupational hazard in many professions, unfortunately including professional audio. At the very least, mixers exposed to periods of very loud sound incur temporary hearing loss. Repetitions of such exposures result in permanent hearing loss. As illustrated in Section 3.2 and discussed in detail in Chapter 17, both of these seriously affect what is heard in mixes, and it is not consistent. Judgments of sound quality are impaired. Paradoxically, the people who do the mixes may not be the best judges of the results. If they think their work has "translated” to a different venue, it is very possible that others with more normal hearing may have different opinions not only about how successful the translation was, but also about the original work. Tragically, if one seeks an evaluation of hearing performance, what an audiologist considers to be “normal” hearing is not an adequate criterion. Audiometry is focused on speech intelligibility, not the audible attributes and intricacies of high-quality broadband, spatially complex music and movies. A threshold determination is merely a starting point. There is much more to the perception timbre and of sounds in spaces than merely detecting that they are present. With gaping 4 kHz notches in hearing thresholds attributable to noise-induced loss, and the eroded high- frequency hearing limit, the ability of listeners has been more than slightly compromised. All of this is a gross intellectual and emotional insult to audio professionals, but it is an unfortunate reality. It is not possible to learn your way around these problems after the “microphones” are broken.

Having said that, I agree objectively speaking that as said the general bass shelf shape (although not level to most) of the Zero Red may be more natural to people, being more similar to the Harman bass shelf shape, as the original Blue version has a disjointed dip in the upper bass, excess in the midbass, and deficiency in the subbass (but closer in general bass level to Harman). The original also has a broadband excess in the upper mids / lower treble over Harman which could contribute to an unnatural ('shouty') sound; the Red is conversely deficienct here which could also sound unnatural (dull, muffled) to many. As for upper treble extension, they're both clearly lacking here compared to many other (cheaper) IEMs, with the Red in particular dropping off a cliff up there, something that will unlikely be able to be adequately EQed up from such a low level. Whether you notice this treble extension deficiency will depend on your age and/or level of noise-induced hearing loss. The preferred IEM upper treble level (the Harman target doesn't claim validity above 10 kHz) was investigated by Knowles with blind tests and was found to increase with age (highly likely due to presbycusis):

But as can be seen no age group tested preferred a low level of upper treble as exhibited by the Truthear Zero Blue or Red (even lower than the Harman target, which Knowles call 'Olive' above). So yes, the Zeros are objectively worse in this regard then most other IEMs that have better treble extension.

 

[MacClintock]

For all, who want to hear real stupid YouTube hogwash, starting from 12:45 all the cliches about "technicalities" are repeated and "soft transient attack" is ascribed to it. I don't know what is the origin of this, probably the fact that the own IEM-reviewer existence is a bit called into question when a $55 IEM outperforms many others 10-20 times the price.

 

[Grooved]

How old are you?

It is rude to ask an audiophile their age.

Ear aging shame!

I see that you had fun but you're far from the truth
I'm in my mid 40s, still hearing at 16kHz (we all don't have the same hearing at the same age, depends also on what you did).
I'm certainly not an audiophile but more a music lover, and have worked in music for years. Live mixing is no more my main job, and even if my hearing is not perfect (but I know where there are some deficiencies), it's funny that you were supposing that I may be an old audiophile with big hearing problem while I was just called some days ago to replace the sound engineer of a foreign band with lots of traditional instruments and the first thing the band told me once the show was done was "thank you so much for having so much respected the sound of these instruments and make it enjoyable for the attendance, when we don't work with our guy, things often go less well.", enough to give me a little bit more faith in my hearing before finishing to compare both IEMs

Regarding both IEMs, I didn't compare Blue and Red by just listening to music, I also did another test: mix a track with both without any EQ on IEMs, and found that the mix that translated better to other systems was the one done with the Red. The advantage of that is that it's not only a subjective taste making the difference, it also highlight "technical" problems (knowing it would be far from perfect since I don't trust headphones as much as speakers).
The main thing was that the low end was clearly more correct with the Red mix than the Blue mix.

...
Having said that, I agree objectively speaking that as said the general bass shelf shape (although not level to most) of the Zero Red may be more natural to people, being more similar to the Harman bass shelf shape, as the original Blue version has a disjointed dip in the upper bass, excess in the midbass, and deficiency in the subbass (but closer in general bass level to Harman). The original also has a broadband excess in the upper mids / lower treble over Harman which could contribute to an unnatural ('shouty') sound; the Red is conversely deficienct here which could also sound unnatural (dull, muffled) to many. As for upper treble extension, they're both clearly lacking here compared to many other (cheaper) IEMs, with the Red in particular dropping off a cliff up there, something that will unlikely be able to be adequately EQed up from such a low level. Whether you notice this treble extension deficiency will depend on your age and/or level of noise-induced hearing loss.

Pretty much the same than what I said in the previous page, I should have added "more correct" compared to the Blue, not "more natural" only.

 

[GaryH]

For all, who want to hear real stupid YouTube hogwash, starting from 12.45 all the cliches about "technicalities" are repeated and "soft transient attack" is ascribed to it. I don't know what is the origin of this, probably the fact that the own IEM-reviewer existence is a bit called into question when a $55 IEM outperforms many others 10-20 times the price.

While pricing bias is a huge problem, I'm not sure that explains everything here when he says the Red has worse 'technicalities' than the (cheaper) Blue. Of course, like many audiophiles and reviewers he refuses to believe this can be down to just frequency response and ascribes it to some other mysterious hitherto undiscovered by science quality, but the answer is right there in his own video at 18:30 - he finds the Red less 'technical', with 'soft transient attack' etc because it's lacking in both bass and treble, both of which are present and needed in sufficient quantity in many transient attack sounds in music such as drum hits. And the 'speed' of the 'leading edge' of such impulses (i.e. the steepness of the initial waveform in the time domain) is directly determined by the upper frequency extension via Fourier analysis. As usual, it all comes down to frequency response.

 

[SalutaryGraveness]

I think it's worth pointing out that there are two different sets of ear tips included, one narrow bore the other wide. Measurements done comparing both have shown differences in treble response of a fair margin. It's possible people are using different sets of tips and getting different results therefore. The foam tips included would also likely pull somewhat back on treble compared to narrow.

See comparison here:

Squiglink - IEM frequency response database by SupOrSalad

Compare hundreds of frequency response graphs between IEMs and earphones from manufacturers like Moondrop, Sony, 64 Audio, Fiio, and more.

suporsalad.squig.link

View attachment 290864

So, what's the tuning supposed to be?

 

[SalutaryGraveness]

Maybe take it with a grain of salt when comparing measurements between different couplers. But, I'm also curious how these sets compare. I already have the Lan and my Red is in transit.

I think the data from oratory and amir are supposed to be good enough for apples to apples comparisons. Perhaps not that much beyond the 10kHz mark because those regions can be more problematic. But the quality of data is supposed to be good enough to conclude that the treble performance of the TE Zero Red and Moondrop Starfields must be similar. (I was kinda surprised of how similar) And that's something I am not looking for right now.

 

[lazarian]

So, what's the tuning supposed to be?

That would come down to your own preference I'd assume.. they provided both clearly for a reason. You like treble, go with narrow, you like less but potentially a spike up higher that some might consider sparkle, go with wide.
Beyond that only Crinacle and Truthear could answer that.

 

[WickedInsignia]

As per every single interaction I had with this guy, it's pretty clear that he's only interested in badmouthing and insulting anything that I do.

Yup, that's Gary. He’s a bit like a Beyer treble peak: persistent and grating so you learn to ignore him or you spend your time listening to something else.
The discussions on the Blue/Red have been great otherwise. Thanks for the effort put into these IEMs! Enjoying the newly arrived Zero atm and looking forward to getting some SpinFits on these bad boys.

 

[SalutaryGraveness]

That would come down to your own preference I'd assume.. they provided both clearly for a reason. You like treble, go with narrow, you like less but potentially a spike up higher that some might consider sparkle, go with wide.
Beyond that only Crinacle and Truthear could answer that.

It would be nice if iem vendors could explain that already in the packing or marketing material. In particular why they provide that choice for adjustment in that particular region.

 

[Anthony LoFi]

I have received my pair of Reds today and they meet all the expectations I may have biased myself to expect.
After comparing them to my other two pair of IEMs costing x2 of the Reds, they are in my opinion more "accurate" (done without the Bass adapter) or "clearer"
I use IEMs on my motorcycle rides and have found the a test of the Reds for 30 minutes really enjoyable. I can still hear the engine and road noise but the clarity of the Reds really have improved my enjoyment.
Normal and loud volume levels sound tonally similar and no cone breakup.
I am also impressed with the packaging contents. A great selection of ear cups as well as 3 pairs of fine gauze discs replacements for the earphone tips. Ive never had this before.
I can recommend the Reds.
Im not sure how much more I would have to spend to get an audio improvement?
My IEM use is for casual/non critical listening, I will be re-ordering another set of Reds or their equivilent when these eventually fail.

 

[Robbo99999]

Thanks! Sorted.

Just did the dreaded deadlifts for the week. 100% recommend these turned up obscenely loud with ACDC 'back in black' for a PR.

Ha no worries! Also notice this post from GaryH, as this data looks more accurate to me (and I don't know the source of the other):

Truthear x Crinacle Zero:RED IEM Review

Couldn't resist and ordered them on the spot for €55, to be delivered June 3rd to 8th. We shall see (hear) how they compare to my old Ultimate Ears UA5 (€150 back then) ... Got them today in the late afternoon and listening almost the whole time since. :) What follows is my subjective biased...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Ha, be careful with your ears & back, don't want to wreck both at the same time! On a serious note though, I recommend you do some Pilates or Yoga or Piyo to go along with your weight training, don't end up tight & "disabled" when you're older.

 

[Robbo99999]

I see that you had fun but you're far from the truth
I'm in my mid 40s, still hearing at 16kHz (we all don't have the same hearing at the same age, depends also on what you did).
I'm certainly not an audiophile but more a music lover, and have worked in music for years. Live mixing is no more my main job, and even if my hearing is not perfect (but I know where there are some deficiencies), it's funny that you were supposing that I may be an old audiophile with big hearing problem while I was just called some days ago to replace the sound engineer of a foreign band with lots of traditional instruments and the first thing the band told me once the show was done was "thank you so much for having so much respected the sound of these instruments and make it enjoyable for the attendance, when we don't work with our guy, things often go less well.", enough to give me a little bit more faith in my hearing before finishing to compare both IEMs

Regarding both IEMs, I didn't compare Blue and Red by just listening to music, I also did another test: mix a track with both without any EQ on IEMs, and found that the mix that translated better to other systems was the one done with the Red. The advantage of that is that it's not only a subjective taste making the difference, it also highlight "technical" problems (knowing it would be far from perfect since I don't trust headphones as much as speakers).
The main thing was that the low end was clearly more correct with the Red mix than the Blue mix.



Pretty much the same than what I said in the previous page, I should have added "more correct" compared to the Blue, not "more natural" only.

(Sorry, I was more making a fun comment on back of a joke IAtaman was making, so I wasn't really following or intending to mean anything towards you, I don't think I was following the conversation.)

 

[markanini]

The wide bores tips go better with the bass+ adapter. But my favorite config is narrow bore, no bass+ adapter. The sound is very good on a very wide range of music, and orchestral recordings sounds extra good on this set.

 

[GaryH]

I think the data from oratory and amir are supposed to be good enough for apples to apples comparisons.

Not necessarily.

 

[markanini]

So, what's the tuning supposed to be?

Crinacle recommend the narrow bore tips, to a reviewer:

 

[asrUser]

I have a hundred different tips laying around but find the one's in the photo the best for the Red. The IEM's fit perfectly in my ear with a perfect seal. The whole range is incredible and the bass is very detailed, textured and deep. Some of the best I have heard on any head device. A good test of these IEM is using Queensryche Empire 24/96 (DR12). The album has particularly great deep textured bass. The Red really makes the album shine.

What tips are those?

 

[GoMrPickles]

Mine arrived today. Using the included memory foam tips (silicone ones always fall out of my ears).

First impression (obv colored by expectation) is that the bass/upper bass is a little pulled back compared to the blue Zero; bass extension sounds a little deeper but have not done a direct comparison. Listening with a DX3 Pro+ at -40 dB on low gain. -30 dB sounds like hearing loss.

I love 'em.

 

[Mauro]

Ear opening experience
RED… huge… NOZZLE!
Poor ears

Great sound anyway..
@crinacle suggestions for an IEM for small ears with similar sound quality?
Nozzles are too big for small ears but also the body of the headphone is slightly large.
(Nozzle size should be indicated on the manufacturer page. Doesn’t cost much effort to measure it)

 

[amirm]

Crinacle recommend the narrow bore tips, to a reviewer:

He did to me as well, which happened to be what I used in my original Zero review.

 

[asrUser]

He did to me as well, which happened to be what I used in my original Zero review.

What did he say about the new waifu?