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Truthear x Crinacle Zero:RED IEM Review

Rate this IEM:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 7 2.2%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 10 3.1%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 31 9.7%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 273 85.0%

  • Total voters
    321

lazarian

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Maybe you already hear less treble than @Elitzur–Vaidman and that's why you both get opposite opinion on the treble of the Red ?
I think it's worth pointing out that there are two different sets of ear tips included, one narrow bore the other wide. Measurements done comparing both have shown differences in treble response of a fair margin. It's possible people are using different sets of tips and getting different results therefore. The foam tips included would also likely pull somewhat back on treble compared to narrow.

See comparison here:
1686204929454.png
 

Robbo99999

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I have quite the opposite issue, low treble sounds absolutely terrible to me, I shudder to think what'll happen to my music enjoyment when I'm 80 and can barely hear 8khz
I wouldn't worry about it too much, our minds automatically adapt to the decreased hearing ability, so music will still sound normal to you. When you get to the point of needing to use hearing aids in everyday life then I can't speak for that, as this would indicate you need that extra help for dialog to be intelligible, etc. Up to the point that you need hearing aids I wouldn't worry about it. As an idea, when a person eventually does need hearing aids praps what you could do when listening to speakers & headphones is that you could EQ in your hearing aid curve directly into the speakers or headphones so that you don't need to wear the hearing aids when listening to music - which you'd think would be a higher fidelity experience. (Of course that would be a solo listening experience at that point!) Up until that point I don't agree with correcting headphone or speaker EQ for age related hearing decrease.
 

icey.seri

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I wouldn't worry about it too much, our minds automatically adapt to the decreased hearing ability, so music will still sound normal to you. When you get to the point of needing to use hearing aids in everyday life then I can't speak for that, as this would indicate you need that extra help for dialog to be intelligible, etc. Up to the point that you need hearing aids I wouldn't worry about it. As an idea, when a person eventually does need hearing aids praps what you could do when listening to speakers & headphones is that you could EQ in your hearing aid curve directly into the speakers or headphones so that you don't need to wear the hearing aids when listening to music - which you'd think would be a higher fidelity experience. Up until that point I don't agree with correcting headphone or speaker EQ for age related hearing decrease.
I'm not 80 now, I'm just talking about the future, in case that was unclear
 

GaryH

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It seems you are confusing two words here: "less" doesn't mean "worse" ;)
I already had the Blue, got the Red one week ago, so it makes 7 days that I have both and compare them, and no doubt that the Red are more natural sounding than Blue ones. We don't hear the same way, but I would be surprised to see someone finding the Blue more natural than the Red, mainly because of a better balance in the sub-bass / bass region, and even if they might lack a little bit of treble.
How old are you?
 

Elitzur–Vaidman

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Maybe you already hear less treble than @Elitzur–Vaidman and that's why you both get opposite opinion on the treble of the Red ?
I have good hearing with audibility up to 18khz, with what i reckon to be full sensitivty up to around 16 or 17
Honestly, my feedback on IEMs is probably not the most useful. I have massive hearing loss out of my left ear from multiple childhood cholesteatoma surgeries. I"m considering using my Qudelix 5k to develop an EQ for just my left ear.
 

Robbo99999

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Lbstyling

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Just received mine. Obviously. They have to fit, but, Is there any advantage between the narrower inner hole eartips vs wider?
 

Matias

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Just received mine. Obviously. They have to fit, but, Is there any advantage between the narrower inner hole eartips vs wider?
The answer is a few posts above yours...
 

Robbo99999

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Just received mine. Obviously. They have to fit, but, Is there any advantage between the narrower inner hole eartips vs wider?
Narrow inner hole is the one that was measured by Amir. Someone has posted the difference between narrow inner bore vs wide inner bore:
 

Lbstyling

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Narrow inner hole is the one that was measured by Amir. Someone has posted the difference between narrow inner bore vs wide inner bore:
Thanks! Sorted.

Just did the dreaded deadlifts for the week. 100% recommend these turned up obscenely loud with ACDC 'back in black' for a PR. :p
 

GaryH

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Narrow inner hole is the one that was measured by Amir. Someone has posted the difference between narrow inner bore vs wide inner bore:
@Resolve 's measurements using a genuine GRAS RA0402 (ignore the laughable target :D):

97c402f2dab396ee462adcb06010500fc3ededd0.jpeg
 
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GaryH

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It is rude to ask an audiophile their age.
:D Well it is pertinent here (of course they don't have to say if they don't want to though). Harman found preferred bass level decreases with age (likely due to less upward masking beneficial for presbycusis, poorer hearing at higher frequencies with age):

Screenshot_20230608-233059_Acrobat for Samsung.png


This poorer hearing results in higher variability (lower reliability) of sound quality judgements with age:

Screenshot_20230608_233745.png


Similarly, noise-induced hearing loss also leads to lower sound quality judgements, an occupational hazard for e.g. sound engineers, of which it looks like the audiophile in question is (or was) one. Dr Floyd Toole again:
Hearing loss is an occupational hazard in many professions, unfortunately including professional audio. At the very least, mixers exposed to periods of very loud sound incur temporary hearing loss. Repetitions of such exposures result in permanent hearing loss. As illustrated in Section 3.2 and discussed in detail in Chapter 17, both of these seriously affect what is heard in mixes, and it is not consistent. Judgments of sound quality are impaired. Paradoxically, the people who do the mixes may not be the best judges of the results. If they think their work has "translated” to a different venue, it is very possible that others with more normal hearing may have different opinions not only about how successful the translation was, but also about the original work. Tragically, if one seeks an evaluation of hearing performance, what an audiologist considers to be “normal” hearing is not an adequate criterion. Audiometry is focused on speech intelligibility, not the audible attributes and intricacies of high-quality broadband, spatially complex music and movies. A threshold determination is merely a starting point. There is much more to the perception timbre and of sounds in spaces than merely detecting that they are present. With gaping 4 kHz notches in hearing thresholds attributable to noise-induced loss, and the eroded high- frequency hearing limit, the ability of listeners has been more than slightly compromised. All of this is a gross intellectual and emotional insult to audio professionals, but it is an unfortunate reality. It is not possible to learn your way around these problems after the “microphones” are broken.

Having said that, I agree objectively speaking that as said the general bass shelf shape (although not level to most) of the Zero Red may be more natural to people, being more similar to the Harman bass shelf shape, as the original Blue version has a disjointed dip in the upper bass, excess in the midbass, and deficiency in the subbass (but closer in general bass level to Harman). The original also has a broadband excess in the upper mids / lower treble over Harman which could contribute to an unnatural ('shouty') sound; the Red is conversely deficienct here which could also sound unnatural (dull, muffled) to many. As for upper treble extension, they're both clearly lacking here compared to many other (cheaper) IEMs, with the Red in particular dropping off a cliff up there, something that will unlikely be able to be adequately EQed up from such a low level. Whether you notice this treble extension deficiency will depend on your age and/or level of noise-induced hearing loss. The preferred IEM upper treble level (the Harman target doesn't claim validity above 10 kHz) was investigated by Knowles with blind tests and was found to increase with age (highly likely due to presbycusis):

image-1.png


But as can be seen no age group tested preferred a low level of upper treble as exhibited by the Truthear Zero Blue or Red (even lower than the Harman target, which Knowles call 'Olive' above). So yes, the Zeros are objectively worse in this regard then most other IEMs that have better treble extension.
 
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MacClintock

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May 24, 2023
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For all, who want to hear real stupid YouTube hogwash, starting from 12:45 all the cliches about "technicalities" are repeated and "soft transient attack" is ascribed to it. I don't know what is the origin of this, probably the fact that the own IEM-reviewer existence is a bit called into question when a $55 IEM outperforms many others 10-20 times the price.
 
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Grooved

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How old are you?
It is rude to ask an audiophile their age.
Ear aging shame! :p
I see that you had fun but you're far from the truth :)
I'm in my mid 40s, still hearing at 16kHz (we all don't have the same hearing at the same age, depends also on what you did).
I'm certainly not an audiophile but more a music lover, and have worked in music for years. Live mixing is no more my main job, and even if my hearing is not perfect (but I know where there are some deficiencies), it's funny that you were supposing that I may be an old audiophile with big hearing problem while I was just called some days ago to replace the sound engineer of a foreign band with lots of traditional instruments and the first thing the band told me once the show was done was "thank you so much for having so much respected the sound of these instruments and make it enjoyable for the attendance, when we don't work with our guy, things often go less well.", enough to give me a little bit more faith in my hearing before finishing to compare both IEMs ;)

Regarding both IEMs, I didn't compare Blue and Red by just listening to music, I also did another test: mix a track with both without any EQ on IEMs, and found that the mix that translated better to other systems was the one done with the Red. The advantage of that is that it's not only a subjective taste making the difference, it also highlight "technical" problems (knowing it would be far from perfect since I don't trust headphones as much as speakers).
The main thing was that the low end was clearly more correct with the Red mix than the Blue mix.

...
Having said that, I agree objectively speaking that as said the general bass shelf shape (although not level to most) of the Zero Red may be more natural to people, being more similar to the Harman bass shelf shape, as the original Blue version has a disjointed dip in the upper bass, excess in the midbass, and deficiency in the subbass (but closer in general bass level to Harman). The original also has a broadband excess in the upper mids / lower treble over Harman which could contribute to an unnatural ('shouty') sound; the Red is conversely deficienct here which could also sound unnatural (dull, muffled) to many. As for upper treble extension, they're both clearly lacking here compared to many other (cheaper) IEMs, with the Red in particular dropping off a cliff up there, something that will unlikely be able to be adequately EQed up from such a low level. Whether you notice this treble extension deficiency will depend on your age and/or level of noise-induced hearing loss.

Pretty much the same than what I said in the previous page, I should have added "more correct" compared to the Blue, not "more natural" only.
 

GaryH

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For all, who want to hear real stupid YouTube hogwash, starting from 12.45 all the cliches about "technicalities" are repeated and "soft transient attack" is ascribed to it. I don't know what is the origin of this, probably the fact that the own IEM-reviewer existence is a bit called into question when a $55 IEM outperforms many others 10-20 times the price.
While pricing bias is a huge problem, I'm not sure that explains everything here when he says the Red has worse 'technicalities' than the (cheaper) Blue. Of course, like many audiophiles and reviewers he refuses to believe this can be down to just frequency response and ascribes it to some other mysterious hitherto undiscovered by science quality, but the answer is right there in his own video at 18:30 - he finds the Red less 'technical', with 'soft transient attack' etc because it's lacking in both bass and treble, both of which are present and needed in sufficient quantity in many transient attack sounds in music such as drum hits. And the 'speed' of the 'leading edge' of such impulses (i.e. the steepness of the initial waveform in the time domain) is directly determined by the upper frequency extension via Fourier analysis. As usual, it all comes down to frequency response.
 
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GPJ

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As per every single interaction I had with this guy, it's pretty clear that he's only interested in badmouthing and insulting anything that I do. I can predict that if he does buy one, he'll do so for no other reason than to trash it. Guaranteed.

Crinacle ... buddy ... you really knocked it out of the park with these IEM's. I've been using them steady since receiving them .... I find them outstanding! Thank you!
 
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I think it's worth pointing out that there are two different sets of ear tips included, one narrow bore the other wide. Measurements done comparing both have shown differences in treble response of a fair margin. It's possible people are using different sets of tips and getting different results therefore. The foam tips included would also likely pull somewhat back on treble compared to narrow.

See comparison here:
View attachment 290864

So, what's the tuning supposed to be?
 
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