Best 'Bang for your buck' IEM - Poll

[MacClintock]

Speaking of 7Hz x Crinacle Zero: 2 in the context of best bang for your buck:

If you think the new Moondrop x Crinacle DUSK is the improved version you may want to check out the Artti R2 for 1/9th the price! **For me** the slight bump between 4-6kHz (which you can control with tips) makes the Artti R2s the superior IEM. You may also get a supposedly better increased response above 15kHz too, lol!

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Hm, for me the fact that the Zero 2 stays a bit below the Harman 2019 target between 4 and 6kHz is a desired feature. And the Artti falls off a cliff above the 8kHz resonance, so it is a double pass for me.

 

[USER]

And the Artti falls off a cliff above the 8kHz resonance, so it is a double pass for me.

You can't say that. IEC711 graphs aren't dependable there, and clone couplers are worse. You see the same thing in Crinacle's 711 graph of the Zero 2, but the better B&K one shows that it is not the case. I'd be willing to bet based on patterns I have seen that it actually follows Harman closely in that area in better measurements with the standard tips. This is one reason I went out of my way to show both Crinacle graphs.

 

[markanini]

Hm, for me the fact that the Zero 2 stays a bit below the Harman 2019 target between 4 and 6kHz is a desired feature. And the Artti falls off a cliff above the 8kHz resonance, so it is a double pass for me.

I didn't read the graph that way. Given that the bass is elevated vs Harman IE on both sets it would be better for the treble to approach almost Harman IE magnitude like the R2 does. More so given that a real person prefers R2 after hearing both. The notion that a 10kHz notch is problematic is counter to avalaible 711 HRTF data. That's why it's not surprising that owners of IEMs like Kiwi Quartet and Simgot EM6L complain abut treble sharpness, those IEMs measure with a more linear-sloped features in the upper range. I'm skipping The R2 because I'd like something less V-shaped.

Source: https://headphones.com/blogs/features/diffuse-field

 

[USER]

I didn't read the graph that way. Given that the bass is elevated vs Harman IE on both sets it would be better for the treble to approach almost Harman IE magnitude like the R2 does.

Completely agree. These don't get as "boomy" as the Zero 2s get with certain material for me and I strongly believe that this is the reason why. They are better balanced to me yet still give you that smoother treble than Harman sound. (My gold standard are still the modded 1st gen Zeros. These are my preferred change of pace IEMs.)

 

[mc.god]

From the 3 squigs that measured both, R2 appears like an Hola with more mid treble and a bit less air, no wonder they sound good.

https://mmagtech.squig.link/?share=Harman_2019v2_Target,ARTTI_R2_Foam,TruthEar_Hola_Foam
https://tonedeafmonk.squig.link/?share=ARTTI_R2,TruthEar_Hola
https://riz.squig.link/?share=Artti_R2,Truthhear_Hola

 

[InfiniteJester]

Apparently, the R1 and the R2 are very similar. The R1, as fun as they are, do not sound "correct". They sound a little recesed and "gritty". It is a cool effect, because it makes the soundstage deeper and gives you some analog feeling for classic progressive rock and so on, but I don't think that they are much versatile and precise.

I'm not so sure about many people liking them. Particularly after reading about their distortion.

If the R2 really sound like the R1, I warn you: they are very peculiar. They are fun, but they don't sound correct. The Delci sound much more correct and I imagine that thoy would be preferred by most.

And by correct I mean it as someone who has worked professionally not only as a musician, but also recording and mixing albums.

 

[mc.god]

View attachment 365687

Apparently, the R1 and the R2 are very similar. The R1, as fun as they are, do not sound "correct". They sound a little recesed and "gritty". It is a cool effect, because it makes the soundstage deeper and gives you some analog feeling for classic progressive rock and so on, but I don't think that they are much versatile and precise.

I'm not so sure about many people liking them. Particularly after reading about their distortion.

If the R2 really sound like the R1, I warn you: they are very peculiar. They are fun, but they don't sound correct. The Delci sound much more correct and I imagine that thoy would be preferred by most.

And by correct I mean it as someone who has worked professionally not only as a musician, but also recording and mixing albums.

I don't think R1 and R2 sound much alike, normalizing them at 500 Hz it's even more evident, and comparing to my favorite Sonus i think I could be fine with R2 but surely not much with R1. Delci seems still fine but at limit in the bass region for my liking.

 

[InfiniteJester]

I don't think R1 and R2 sound much alike, normalizing them at 500 Hz it's even more evident, and comparing to my favorite Sonus i think I could be fine with R2 but surely not much with R1. Delci seems still fine but at limit in the bass region for my liking.

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I have felt tempted by the Sonus many times.

Your favorite, you say...

 

[USER]

View attachment 365687

Apparently, the R1 and the R2 are very similar. The R1, as fun as they are, do not sound "correct". They sound a little recesed and "gritty". It is a cool effect, because it makes the soundstage deeper and gives you some analog feeling for classic progressive rock and so on, but I don't think that they are much versatile and precise.

I'm not so sure about many people liking them. Particularly after reading about their distortion.

If the R2 really sound like the R1, I warn you: they are very peculiar. They are fun, but they don't sound correct. The Delci sound much more correct and I imagine that thoy would be preferred by most.

And by correct I mean it as someone who has worked professionally not only as a musician, but also recording and mixing albums.

While you can certainly compare them to each other, don't rely on mmagtech measurements to tell you about how they sound as intended, especially in the treble region. He measures everything with foam tips out of what I perceive as laziness having now actually measured IEMs. It is much easier to hit the 8kHz resonance with them. And he can't even do it here.

Edit: Just look at that comparison just posted. Absolutely dreadful. If the resonance doesn't match up it is not a good comparison and it will mislead you. This guy should stop wasting everyone's time. His measurements suck. Likely the worst on squig.link. This is partly why I got my own coupler. I can only trust myself. It took me a good 15 tries each to get results that I would put my reputation on and share with the public.

 

[InfiniteJester]

View attachment 365687

Apparently, the R1 and the R2 are very similar. The R1, as fun as they are, do not sound "correct". They sound a little recesed and "gritty". It is a cool effect, because it makes the soundstage deeper and gives you some analog feeling for classic progressive rock and so on, but I don't think that they are much versatile and precise.

I'm not so sure about many people liking them. Particularly after reading about their distortion.

If the R2 really sound like the R1, I warn you: they are very peculiar. They are fun, but they don't sound correct. The Delci sound much more correct and I imagine that thoy would be preferred by most.

And by correct I mean it as someone who has worked professionally not only as a musician, but also recording and mixing albums.

Fair enough.

Do you think that the other Squigs tell such a different story?

 

[USER]

There seems to be a pattern there but I can't say anything definitely unless the resonances match up. They may actually be closer than shown!

This says a lot about the state of the measurements on squig.link. I would never publish those measurements.

This is what an archive made with considerate effort would show:

Let me be the first to say: MY MEASUREMENTS ARE NOT GOING TO BE PERFECT. There are some that I could not get to match up because of some physical limitation. These things are finicky. But I will sure as hell call out lazy measurers. Compare anything I have up and you will see great effort to hit that 8kHz resonance.

Edit: Shout out to Paul Wasabii, whom I consider the gold standard at squig.link for measurement quality. He gave me great tips such as measuring with the coupler flat on its side.

 

[mc.god]

I have felt tempted by the Sonus many times.

Your favorite, you say...

Yes, Sonus are preferred among my iems. Note that I refer to stock sound as I generally don't eq, since i like to switch iems enjoying their different personalities (clearly this is for already well tuned iems, not for those originally too flawed like my Panasonic, they NEED eq, and then they become incredibly good ).
Also note that Sonus are hybrid, so they could have higher distortion typical of BA drivers, I don't really know since I generally listen at low or moderate volume and this is one point that i greatly like about Sonus, they are fantastic still at extremely low volume.

 

[USER]

Perhaps this helps folks out: here is a comparison between Amir's distortion measurements and my basic ones. These are of the Truthear Zeros.

My results --which, again, I do not vouch for as I don't yet have a proper set-up to measure distortion-- show more distortion above 2kHz at 94 dB (at 450Hz compared to his 425Hz). So in the end it is likely that distortion for the Artti R2s is lower than what my graph shows and below any result to worry about. I just wanted to supplement my post so that I don't mislead people. For now I have no reason to not believe the (commonly vague) spec of "<1.5%."

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Edit: The most promising comparison of the R1 and R2 that I found is of this R1 and my R2. This R1 seems to actually be measured properly. If this is right they should sound very different. I can't imagine liking the R1 as the bass of the R2 is already a little more than what I like.

Here are our zeros. I trust them. Wish there was better quality control at squig.link.