This all seems like a battle of words.
Yes, it would have been much more meaningful if they had engaged in a battle of interpretive dance.
Amir is really just stirring up a movement of quite un realistic values in the bottom end on consumer home entertainment.
Plenty of affordable gear meets the performance expectations that you claim are unrealistic. And in some product categories, the tests and reviews published here have played a role in spurring manufacturers to increase performance. So not only are the performance expectations realistic, but ASR has in some cases helped make that performance a reality in lower-priced gear. Therefore, your claim is demonstrably false.
Aside from the less than cordial interactions with Amir and Eric what in the end is the point being made in these or an un solicited measurement? I am not convinced there is a real point to any off it.
The point being made with the measurements of the M-Lore is that the M-Lore performs in certain ways, and that information is useful for prospective buyers of the product, and for those generally interested in learning more about the performance of speakers. It doesn't matter whether the review is solicited or not.
On reflection it’s a good idea as a manufacturer to state the frequency response and the limits ie 50-20,000 hertz +- 5 db @ One meter for example. Any post purchase measurements only need to verify that under those conditions.
Measurements "only need to verify that" if the manufacturer's stated specifications are sufficient in their scope and precision to give us a full picture of the speaker's performance. The example you have given does not come close to meeting that standard. Plus or minus 5dB isn't linear enough; we don't know how quickly or slowly it drops off below 50Hz; we don't know what the distortion levels are at various SPLs; we don't know if the response contains broad, low-Q peaks that will be very noticeable; we don't know what the off-axis response looks like; we don't know the impedance load it presents to an amplifier; and so on. So your claim here is very easy to demonstrate as false, "upon reflection" - and it doesn't take much reflection.
If the manufacturer leaves that open ended and the reviewer is also open ended in the approach to limit all this is nothing more than gas bagging. It’s on line waffle.
True. Fortunately the reviews here are not open-ended.
What is the reference at this price point?
The idea that each price point has an unchangeable reference performance makes no sense. The idea that similarly priced speakers can and should be compared to each other makes a lot of sense. Amir does some of that in his reviews (for example he noted in the M-Lore review that "the competition does not need to be worried"), and there is both a speaker preference score and a review/measurement database associated with this site, as well as Klippel measurement comparison tool easily available online and linked in many review threads here.
The more intelligent approach rather than Amir made advoc personal statements is to quote the results in a form that make sense.
Ie the loudspeaker under test had a response +-3 db from 200 - 10,000 for example. [...]
At this price point this is a credible result.
No one said this is not a "credible" result - although you seem to think that 200Hz and 10kHz cutoffs for +/-3dB on-axis response represents higher-quality performance than it actually does, and that it tells us more about how the speaker will sound than it actually does. For example, there are plenty of very inexpensive speakers - less expensive than the M-Lore - whose bass F3 extends far below 200Hz, well below 100Hz, and often to 50-60Hz.
The speaker's response is there for everyone to see in the measurement graphs. And by the way, it's +/-4dB from 200Hz to 10kHz, not 3dB, and on-axis linearity isn't the only important measurement. Given that your "form of quoting the results" is both inaccurate and wildly insufficient,
@amirm 's approach is far more intelligent than your own, and he has "quoted the results" in a form that makes a lot more sense than your quoting of the results has.
If it was a $20,000 system you might expect a better result.
One would indeed expect a better result from a $20k system (although some very expensive systems have very uneven response). But other speakers costing the same as the M-Lore also produce better results. So it would be untruthful and irrational to pretend otherwise.
The subjective comments should not be made by Amir because he would be sight biased by the measurement or other biases. It should be a blind test not revealing the loudspeaker.
He's reviewed dozens of speakers, maybe more than 100 at this point. Which ones is he supposed to blind test compared to each other? How would such listening tests enable him - or anyone else - to compare a speaker he reviewed in 2021 with one he reviews now?
This of course would all be rather boring and there would be many posts. So a 60 Minutes style of provocative reporting to done to drive all you opinion leaders.
60 Minutes is a very poor example of "provocative reporting." Putting that aside, we could easily come up with a checklist of items to test for a sensationalistic or "clickbait" story, and Amir's reviews would fail that test miserably.
I do have one question for Amir
Where is the sense in spending $100,000 in a Klippel Scanner to measure a $1,000 loudspeaker? The answer is there isn’t unless you’re deeply invested in becoming an industry disrupter. The $100,000 is the attention grabber. But it’s really just a fancy machine with lots if automated functions. The primary application is testing drivers in R&D.
Putting aside the super-weak attempt at an ad hominem attack, the logic of this "question" is that only the most expensive speakers should be tested properly and accurately. By that logic, Amir should refuse to provide proper, comprehensive measurement data on speakers costing less than - what? - $30k? $10k? - because lower-priced speakers are for "consumers" and no one would have any interest in real measurements of them. But once again, it is demonstrably provable that people who care about measurements buy speakers that cost $1000 or less. So your claim is demonstrably false.
If Amir measured the drivers X max and BL curve it would give more real clues to how a system behaves under real operating conditions. A very much doubt Amir knows what a BL curve is.
It turns out he does know what it is - and he knows enough about it to explain to you and everyone else why it's infeasible for many of the speakers that he receives, and why it's not at the top of his priority list to add that. So once again, your claim has been proven to be incorrect.
On a broader perspective do those with the means look at forums when buying a +$10,000 loudspeaker system. They might look at consumer product reviews. The primary tool used to judge the loudspeaker will be their own ears. The notion that HiFi dealers don’t exist is rubbish.
The traffic to this site; the comments in the "what have you bought because of ASR testing" thread and the "what have you opted not to buy because of ASR testing" thread; and the fact that you will not be able to find anyone here saying that hi-fi dealers don't exist, all demonstrate that your claims here are false.
