Tannoy System 600 Speaker Review

[amirm]

If you have two speakers with identical spinorama and power handling, how would you know which one has better SQ playing at concert levels? How do you know if there is no "serious misbehaviour"? I don't think you can without additional measurements.

You look at the measurements as provided:

Not only did I present this information in this review, I went further and provided one at a much higher output level:

I even did more by converting distortion measurements to free-field.

This information clearly gives you diagnostic information as to design and engineering of the speaker.

What you asking for is a specific THD graph at a specific SPL. The moment I do that, there will be 100 arguments as to "why did you pick this SPL and not that? What about directivity? How would it be in "my" room?"

Here I thought taking these additional steps to show more information would be taken as a positive, not an opportunity to keep complaining about "why don't you do this and that." And quoting and writing arguments that of no value to me. I know what you know. What you haven't shown is any insight that would justify testing less products your way.

 

[mac]

You should ask the owner if you can open it and reverse the tweeter.

I told Amir yes. Not sure he wants to invest the TIME though.

 

[QMuse]

I told Amir yes. Not sure he wants to invest the TIME though.

It's not the tweeter polarity, poor XO design seems more probable to me.

 

[Francis Vaughan]

If the speaker can be opened up I would also want to check the crossover capacitors - assuming they are electrolytic. Whilst it seems the hole in FR is apparent on other measurements to a lesser extent, this speaker doesn't look happy.

 

[q3cpma]

You look at the measurements as provided:

I think he was arguing with people saying that that THD doesn't matter at all.

Not only did I present this information in this review, I went further and provided one at a much higher output level:

I even did more by converting distortion measurements to free-field.

This information clearly gives you diagnostic information as to design and engineering of the speaker.

What you asking for is a specific THD graph at a specific SPL. The moment I do that, there will be 100 arguments as to "why did you pick this SPL and not that? What about directivity? How would it be in "my" room?"

Here I thought taking these additional steps to show more information would be taken as a positive, not an opportunity to keep complaining about "why don't you do this and that." And quoting and writing arguments that of no value to me. I know what you know. What you haven't shown is any insight that would justify testing less products your way.

I think he was arguing with people saying that THD doesn't matter at all.

 

[jhaider]

I can't help but feel something is busted here.

I suspect that something is broken in this speaker, which is probably very old.

Likely the ferrofuild in the tweeter gap is dried up. The symptom is decreased treble level, which here also exacerbates the midrange dip.

Generally, three potential problem areas for vintage speakers are
-surrounds, which crack
-Alnico magnets, which lose charge with use
-Ferrofluid, which dries up

Sound and Vision as well as stereophile have measured different Tannoy speaker models and they had equally atrocious measurements. I think it's safe to write off Tannoy speakers https://www.soundandvision.com/content/tannoy-dimension-surround-speaker-system-measurements

https://www.stereophile.com/content/tannoy-churchill-loudspeaker-measurements

Why did you leave off this one, which looks quite good?
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/tannoy-sensys-loudspeaker-system-ht-labs-measures

(Top - tower; middle - center; bottom - bookshelf)

I found the Revolution XT 8F to measure fine and sound really excellent.
https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews...olution-xt-8f-floor-standing-speakers-review/
If we didn't have a fireplace, I would have enquired about buying the review samples. I liked them that much.

The NRC listening window (found in review) was ±2.1dB. Here's the CEA-2034 listening window. In room measurement so lumps and bumps below ~700Hz from room.

I cannot speak to newer models. Just as a portion of Harman's talent left after Samsung bought them out, the same happened to Tannoy after Music Group (better known as Behringer) bought them out a few years ago. Some of the ex Tannoyers started Fyne.

The Golds are old ones, they were available in the 1960s.
The drivers were very expensive to make so they designed some simpler ones like these.
This has the less expensive to make waveguide of the cheaper models.

The Golds got expensive because they used obsolete magnet structures (AlNiCo) and the Pepperpot phase plug was a crude, labor intensive design. Basically Tannoy just drilled holes in a cap.

I believe the Tulip phase plug driver was designed by Mark Dodd. He's now chief engineer at KEF. While the phase plug was "simpler" than the Pepperpot, being a series injection molded shaped tubes that press fit together, overall the engineering was far superior. The tweeter aligned easily on three points. The phase plug was dimensionally stable and fit together properly.

The one in the XT 8F above does have a driver that seems cheaper to make, and harder to service. The midrange and tweeter voicecoils share a magnet. The advantage is the tweeter is closer to the acoustic center of the woofer, rather than behind it as in Tulip models.

 

[Sancus]

The Golds are old ones, they were available in the 1960s.

I'm referring to these monitors which seem like a new product. Don't know much about the company's history though, so if they are just a refresh of an old design or something, I suppose that's less interesting.

 

[QMuse]

Likely the ferrofuild in the tweeter gap is dried up. The symptom is decreased treble level, which here also exacerbates the midrange dip.

XO is at 1800Hz but you think dip at 1500Hz, so outside of tweeter's range, is caused by loss of ferrofluid in tweeter? Hmm..

 

[QMuse]

Btw, here is what specs from the user manual are stating:

 

[h46e55x]

The new Studio Monitor Gold series have the frequency response listed here: Tannoy Gold 8 Product Information. The document also mentions "...advanced Klippel™ analysis and a host of other technologies ensure that with every new product comes another historic chapter.

 

[DSJR]

Speakers can and do age you know, especially ferro fluid damped tweeters. I can think of a number of UK models that settle over ten to fifteen years - off the top of my head, original Mission 770's and also 752 with the rather waspy original tweeter, Rogers LS7T's, which lost the sssssting after fifteen years or so and I remember a pair of cheap B&W 601's almost sounding sweet after ten years (EEK!) - I think B&W fixed that in the replacement range as they still seemed to spit and fizzle with no chance of relaxing

 

[jhaider]

XO is at 1800Hz but you think dip at 1500Hz, so outside of tweeter's range, is caused by loss of ferrofluid in tweeter? Hmm..

It is to better ask what someone is thinking than to wrongly assert someone else’s thoughts based on your own misinterpretation of what they wrote.

To repeat myself, a dip there seems to be how Tannoy voiced at the time.

However, the dried up ferrofluid is causing the overall level of the tweeter to be lower. That is exacerabating the depth of the dip.

My basis for that belief is experience with
another Tannoy speaker of similar vintage and design. Measurements with the cleaned and recharged tweeter were posted earlier.


Also, it is not very smart to assume that an alleged 1.8kHz over will show no effects lower if one of the drivers isn’t working as intended. These tweeters typically have 1st order electrical filters.

 

[bobbooo]

I was perplexed when, as an American then new to living in Great Britain, I heard locals use the word "Tannoy" to refer to the PA loudspeaker in a train station or airport. If you're not in Great Britain, you may have heard James May use the word this way in The Grand Tour or old episodes of Top Gear. It seems that Tannoy has--or once had--a very strong brand in Britain.

Yep, 'tannoy' is synonymous with 'PA system' in the UK, much like hoover is synonymous with vacuum cleaner.

 

[JRG]

The Revel and JBL speakers popular on this site have never been easy to find here

As far as I know, In Spain Revel does not even have official distribution.
I just searched Google and I haven't found a single store that sells Revel in Spain, and it's a shame.
I have a pair of Tannoy Revolution XT8F and subjectively they sound good to me... but after seeing this review, ...

 

[bobbooo]

I have a pair of Tannoy Revolution XT8F and subjectively they sound good to me... but after seeing this review, ...

One model measuring poorly is no reason to write off the whole brand, especially considering this is an old model - a lot could have changed since then, and the form factor and design is completely different to your towers. Just look at the difference in the preference ratings of the three JBL speakers measured so far. It's a similar story with headphones as well - big brands like Sennheiser, Sony etc. make some great headphones, but also some shockers.

 

[Sal1950]

Interesting and disappointing.
I would have guessed much better from such a highly revered old line UK manufacturer.

 

[jhaider]

I have a pair of Tannoy Revolution XT8F and subjectively they sound good to me... but after seeing this review, ...

There was a link to a review with measurements of your speakers above

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Fr curve looks like a graphical representation of the bottom of the Pacific Ocean around the Marianis Trench region.

 

[restorer-john]

Interesting and disappointing.
I would have guessed much better from such a highly revered old line UK manufacturer.

It's OK Sal, most of us (you included of course) know better than to trash such a legendary brand entirely based on the testing of a single speaker...

 

[Deleted member 2944]

Thanks Amir. I have used these on stands away from wall surfaces. Perhaps this is why I haven't noticed the driver level mismatches, but that suck out at the crossover point looks like a problem.

However these are decent sounding speakers, IMO. Perhaps the smooth response of the drivers and relatively low distortion numbers contribute to my listening experience.

I know a guy in Texas who can fix those for ya.

Dave.