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Subwoofer Comparison

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sweetchaos

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Spocko

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I agree with you that this approach seems far more complicated than the Welti approach of symmetrical placement in a sealed rectangular room, but it does seem more flexible for weirdly shaped rooms. I never got the impression that he thinks this would not be appropriate for multichannel content. He actually talked about using this approach for his own home theater. For others looking for a good summary, @Matthew J Poes did a video on the AVNirvana channel. I also found this article from miniDSP helpful.
Earlier this year Todd Welti did an interview with AVrant specifically discussing subwoofer placement and his current thinking, very enlightening and definitely worth watching
 
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sweetchaos

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Earlier this year Todd Welti did an interview with AVrant specifically discussing subwoofer placement and his current thinking, very enlightening and definitely worth watching
Speaking of Todd Welti...
Here's another interview with @jtwrace posted last week.

We need a TL;DR for both of these...
 
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sweetchaos

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Added 34 more subwoofer models with CEA-2010-A data...:cool:

Special thanks to @Ilkka Rissanen for sharing his CEA-2010-A results from several years ago (from 2009, I believe).
Also thanks to @pozz for getting me in contact with Ilkka and bugging him to release his data. ;)

Here's the models that I added data for:
Audio Pro Level 110
BK Electronics Extreme
BK Electronics Monolith-DF
BK Electronics XLS200-DF MK2
BK Electronics XLS300/PR
Bowers & Wilkins (B&W) PV-1
Chorus Speakers Vertigo XLS 07
Gallo Acoustics TR-1
Genelec 7050B
Genelec 7060B
Genelec 7070A
Genelec 7071A
Genelec HTS3B
Genelec HTS4B
HSU Research MBM-12
HSU Research VTF-3 MK3
HSU Research VTF-3 MK3
HSU Research VTF-3 MK3 with Turbocharger
JL Audio Fathom f113
Monitor Audio BRW10
SVS 20-39 PC-Plus
SVS 20-39 PC-Plus
SVS 20-39 PC-Plus
SVS PB12-NSD
SVS PB12-NSD
SVS PB13-Ultra
SVS PB13-Ultra
SVS PB13-Ultra
SVS PB13-Ultra
SVS SB12-Plus
Velodyne Acoustics SPL-1200 Series II
XTZ Sound 99 W12S
XTZ Sound 99 W12S
Yamaha YST-SW1500

All those are discontinued, except BK Electronics XLS200-DF MK2.

But it's still awesome data to have, especially since we now have first data on Genelec subs. :D
 

richard12511

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Added 34 more subwoofer models with CEA-2010-A data...:cool:

Special thanks to @Ilkka Rissanen for sharing his CEA-2010-A results from several years ago (from 2009, I believe).
Also thanks to @pozz for getting me in contact with Ilkka and bugging him to release his data. ;)

Here's the models that I added data for:


All those are discontinued, except BK Electronics XLS200-DF MK2.

But it's still awesome data to have, especially since we now have first data on Genelec subs. :D

Yay! Glad to see Genelec finally join the list of subwoofer companies sharing detailed objective data like this.
 

bennybbbx

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I think for not good rooms the best sound come with a "Bass Bar" when use a desktop or mixer. it is more near to ears and room reflections have less influence. Only problem, there seem no Bass Bars that can place below the tft monitor. Play bass with 2 speakers sound very bad for me. test can do with drum sounds and a reverb. if the reverb sound strange and not clear then bass is worse. I use 100 hz crossover linkwitz 24. because there are no Bass Bars i use the iloud mtm but it have a small port so it bring early portnoise. also bad is on subwoofers that they can not choose a delay in 1 ms. I use the t.racks mini dsp 1 ms delay change in measure alot.speaker positions and microphone poistions are exact same. only delay if the satelite speaker is change. see my compare measure. I myself wonder wy 1 ms (1 ms is 34 cm distance or frequency 1 khz)can have so much influence. but it must be right, because i can hear lots sound diffrence depend on delay and position of woofer. this is the best sounding solution, 1 woofer that is very near. i can hear silent music(around 65 db) it always sound clear. or loud without get strange feeling or ear pain. also low bass for example dua lipa new rules come from middle and clear. with 2 speakers it was a muddy surround bass in my room. many say below 80 hz can not hear bass position this is not true for my ears. i try out that left speaker have full range and right speaker have highpass butterworth 24 at 65 hz and correct left speaker with EQ so FR is linear. it sound very strange for me and not nice. because the XLR connector is on middle i can not place it exact in middle on monitor feet. this diffrence i hear not
bass bar_2.JPG
eris delay BW12.jpg
eris delay LK 24.jpg
 
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jcadduono

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Some of the recent PA subwoofers look like they go down pretty deep in frequency, like the Yamaha DXS12XLF. Sure would be interesting to see how they actually hold up in home theatre use compared to the home theatre subwoofers, especially at the price point (I can pick one up for $1400)
Any plans to include PA subs in the sheet?
 
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sweetchaos

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I didn’t add ‘Public Address’ subs intitially since we don’t have much CEA-2010 data on them. I’m okay to add them if there’s interest from the community.

But really, I don’t hear anyone talking about PA subs…either on ASR or on Reddit.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

pozz

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it is more near to ears and room reflections have less influence.
At bass frequencies the room will always influence what you hear. The only benefit to having a subwoofer nearby is in the extra SPL.
 

pozz

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It's from Brent Butterworth actually, but since he's a writer for Wirecutter, he writes and reviews products for them:
https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-subwoofer-for-home/
https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-budget-subwoofer/
Brent's spreadsheet is linked in the Wirecutter article in the section "How we tested", as well as on his personal website.
He seems to post those reviews for multiple publications (pretty sure I've seen his name on SoundStage sub reviews) and compile everything on his website. Could be easier/clearer to use his name?
 

bennybbbx

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At bass frequencies the room will always influence what you hear. The only benefit to having a subwoofer nearby is in the extra SPL.

I have 2 mtm I have put the second mtm 1,5 meter away ansd i can switch easy between the configurations. there can hear that when subwoofer is near bass bring more clarity and can better detect that it come from middle. maybe i do when i have time stereo records so can hear diffrence how bass range sound from 2 speakers, from 1 bass speaker 60 cm away and bass speaker 1,5 meter away.it is more near the wall then to me. its much diffrence.
 
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sweetchaos

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He seems to post those reviews for multiple publications (pretty sure I've seen his name on SoundStage sub reviews) and compile everything on his website. Could be easier/clearer to use his name?
Updated.
 

hege

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Some of the recent PA subwoofers look like they go down pretty deep in frequency, like the Yamaha DXS12XLF.

There is no DXS12XLF. The 18" version is -10dB at 30hz, how is that even remotely "deep"? Completely normal PA response.

1623912984490.png
 

carewser

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There is no DXS12XLF. The 18" version is -10dB at 30hz, how is that even remotely "deep"? Completely normal PA response.

View attachment 136113

I have no idea why anyone would give a shit about PA speakers, this is the first time in all my years on the internet someone has even mentioned them. Yamaha's TOTL DXS18 subwoofer, like all PA subs isn't about accuracy or depth, it's simply about VOLUME and it certainly succeeds at that, being able to create 136db SPL but i'd love to know what it's frequency response would be +/- 3db because at -10db it's frequency response goes down to 32hz. My guess would be ~50hz but Yamaha of course doesn't mention that. I'll bet I own satellite speakers that produce bass as deep as some of their PA subs but if I wanted to host a music festival on my farm, i'd consider buying them
 
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jcadduono

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I have no idea why anyone would give a shit about PA speakers, this is the first time in all my years on the internet someone has even mentioned them. Yamaha's TOTL DXS18 subwoofer, like all PA subs isn't about accuracy or depth, it's simply about VOLUME and it certainly succeeds at that, being able to create 136db SPL but i'd love to know what it's frequency response would be +/- 3db because at -10db it's frequency response goes down to 32hz. My guess would be ~50hz but Yamaha of course doesn't mention that. I'll bet I own satellite speakers that produce bass as deep as some of their PA subs
I was curious because if the drop off below 30 hz wasn't as dramatic as I now see with that graph, perhaps some EQ drop at 40hz+ and gain below 35hz could at least allow it to produce decent low level bass to 110 dB at 20hz & 116 dB at 25hz or so, (throwing random hopeful figures out since I don't have actual measurements) which would make it at least usable, even if it has nothing below 18 hz, especially if you listen to more music than movies. and yes I meant DXS18 not 12, not sure how it ended up like that in the post. I must admit I do love the chest slamming bass more than the room shaking bass, so my love for PA speakers will be there regardless of how not-so-low they go.
 
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